The Froot Thief - The Untold Story Behind That Viral Fruit Spaghetti

Ramon Vela (00:02.409)
Welcome back everyone. We have a great show for you today. I have with me Jonathan Cornish, who is head bandit and of course, co-founder of the fruit thief. And we're going to unpack that title in a second, but welcome to the show.

Jonathan (00:37.922)
Thank you, Ramon. Thank you for having me.

Ramon Vela (00:40.191)
Well, I appreciate your time and I know you're busy, you're running a company and you've got a lot of stuff going on. plus it's late your time, right? You're in a different continent than I am. And so we can tell that it's nighttime wherever you are. So I appreciate you making time for us. I have to say right off the bat, I'm sorry, what was that, Jonathan?

Jonathan (01:03.822)
No, I'll just say greetings from Cape Town.

Ramon Vela (01:06.365)
Yeah, welcome. There is, we have a lot of brands that are on the show. I just kind of want to make sure I phrase my words correctly. I don't want to throw shade on any other brand. We have a lot of products that, you know, we get sent and we're incredibly grateful for people when they send products our way. We like to try them. I mean, we feature them and it's always great to be able to try them.

And every now and then I get something that, you know, I share with my family and see what they think. And this is one of those occasions where my daughter tried the product and she loved it. As a matter of fact, I had a hard time finding any product left, you know, within her house. And so I have to say, right, just right off the bat, this product is amazing. Like I've tasted it. I played with it. People...

People may not understand what I'm saying at that point, but we're going to unpack all of this. But I just wanted it from the get-go. I'm a little biased. I've tried the product and I really, really enjoy it. So let's just put it at that. And my daughter really enjoyed it too. yeah. So let's start off. I always like to bring this interview and these interviews to a very human level. I like to humanize the brand. I think it's important because I feel like

Jonathan (02:15.18)
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Ramon Vela (02:31.679)
There are so many products out there that people see on shelves or they see online and they just think like it's some faceless corporation. They don't really give it much thought. But I know from doing all the interviews I've done that people like you and your team and others, you bleed sweat and tear we're bringing a product to market. mean, listen, I mean, look at your it's eight o'clock or almost nine o'clock your time. You're you're doing a podcast with me. You know, you work really hard.

to bring a product to market, you care deeply about all of this. And so I want people to know that there's real people behind these brands. And one way of doing that is by getting to know who you are as a person. And that's the reason why I asked this opening question, which is a gratitude question. And so if you don't mind, can you share a moment or a memory when someone did something for you that just made you feel grateful because it meant that they believed in you, your vision, or your potential?

Jonathan (03:25.868)
Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Ramon. I think when you asked me that question, when we first had our pre-interview, I sort of went back and I thought to myself, you know, the reason that I'm here today is because of a family that believed in my brother and I, who started our original business almost 25 years ago. And we were...

very young guys, we just moved from South Africa to Canada. And we met a family-run business, a distributor in Canada called the Shandex Group. And it was run by a gentleman by the name of Greg Shannon. And he's since passed away, unfortunately, but he was an amazing man. And he met my brother and I, I was 20, I was probably 20.

23 or 24 years old. And he just really just believed in what we wanted to achieve as two young business owners. We had nothing. We had a vision. We had a dream. We wanted to run our business. And he had a very successful distribution company, one of the largest in Canada at the time. And I think it still is. And he offered my brother and I some office space.

Ramon Vela (04:34.175)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (04:51.374)
He let us use their boardroom and he basically made us look bigger than what we were to the customers that we were trying to impress at the time. And he didn't charge us any rent. He didn't charge us anything. He just said, you guys, I really believe in you and your brother and I would like to do this for you. And it was his way of giving back. And my brother and I...

Ramon Vela (05:17.29)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (05:20.394)
we have run our business with that mentality. A family-run business with family values. And we've run it very similar to how they've run their business. And we have come a long way in the last 25 years to the point now where our original business that we started supplies some of the best retailers in the world. And from that, I've got to travel around the entire planet.

Ramon Vela (05:44.181)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (05:49.23)
and I've amazing suppliers, amazing retailers. I've just had the most incredible opportunity to, I've had that incredible opportunity to do what I do, which is what I love, is bringing product to market. Finding product, going to trade shows, going into markets, and finding the best of the best and bringing it back to the buyers that we've worked with now for 25 years. we are,

Ramon Vela (06:03.765)
you

Yeah.

Jonathan (06:18.414)
I'm today where I am because of the Shannon family, believing in my brother and I without even knowing anything about us really. So that could probably be the answer to my question, which I think is exactly how I feel.

Ramon Vela (06:36.053)
Yeah, well, I love that. And it goes to the heart of the question because and this is what I love to highlight because there's one is that I feel like gratitude is a great way from a founder perspective to, you know, remind yourself that you're not alone in this in this journey that went in during difficult times. You can take yourself back to a moment where people were.

someone was there to help you, someone was there to share something with you, whether it was a kind word or maybe it was an investment or whatever, business advice, whatever it was. Because this journey can be very lonely. It could be filled with doubt at times when things are not going well and you feel like quitting or you feel like giving up. Yeah, there's all sorts of different...

you know, challenges that you go through. And I think it's great to be able to have a gratitude practice when you think you're able to pull yourself out of the current situation. Just think about a moment when someone was there for you and hopefully that gives you some energy. But the cool thing about this.

Jonathan (07:42.956)
I love that question because it made me really reflect and it made me really appreciate where I am today from when I was 25 years ago. And I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it for the world. But that one moment, and it just shows you how a moment can kind of change your whole life. And that meeting and that moment with that family has got me today and...

Ramon Vela (07:53.236)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (08:02.324)
Yeah.

Jonathan (08:09.354)
It got me to a point where I then started another business, is what we'll speak about later, which is Fruit.

Ramon Vela (08:15.167)
Yeah. And, and the other part of that question too, is that, you sometimes, mean, I always often tell people that a lot of this business, of course, there's a lot of knowledge that you have to obtain, you know, like, every, every business has its own sort of, you know, rules and regulations and accounting terms and everything else, you know, there's just a lot of knowledge you have to obtain, but

Jonathan (08:33.526)
Ahem.

Ramon Vela (08:44.373)
But really at the heart of it is you have to have you as a founder have to have that resilience, that grit, that conviction and belief in yourself, in your skillsets, in the future. And a lot of it is, know, it's not, wouldn't say it's just, it's a gut feeling, but you get a sense sometimes after you've been around for a while that, you know, that, you know,

You can see things because of this gut feeling that you have that maybe doesn't always make sense. And what you just described is that the Shannon family, that person looked at you and saw something in you that maybe you didn't even see yourself, but they can see and they thought, you know what, there's something about this person that reminds me of myself or reminds me of what you were doing.

Jonathan (09:34.946)
Yeah.

Jonathan (09:40.046)
Well, that's exactly what he said to us. said to us, you young boys remind me of myself back then, because he built up his business over 25 years to get to that point. And so he said, there's just something about you guys that I really like and I see you guys as myself. And so, you know, I would love to give you this opportunity. And we've been so thankful to that family and they really helped us, you know, get to where we are today.

Ramon Vela (10:07.849)
Yeah. And I'd be curious to know if that person had a similar experience, are they painted forward?

Jonathan (10:16.398)
I'd love to know that actually. It's a good question. I'd love, well, he's since passed on, but we could probably ask the family, but I'm sure, I'm sure he, you know, I think, I think a lot of entrepreneurs need one chance, you know, and it's the one chance that, sets them up. And, and so, you know, in our business and through the years, I definitely have followed that principle of what we got, you know, we were given that, that opportunity we were given, you know, just.

Ramon Vela (10:29.992)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (10:45.656)
Give the guy a chance, sales guy phones you, most guys say, I'm not interested, I don't have time. I give the guys a little bit of time because everyone needs an opportunity and I've always lived like that.

Ramon Vela (11:01.011)
Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. And I do the same. So this is a great segue. mean, we know a little bit about what you've been, you were doing in the past. So you had this other company that you, that you were building and you know, it sounds like it was bringing products to market. Where, where, and where were you at the point where you came up with this new idea for Fruit Thief and how did it come about? The idea.

Jonathan (11:31.182)
That's a great question. So our original business is still operating. It's a private label business. And as I said to you, I'd spent the better part of probably 24 years traveling around the world, finding best in class product for retailers. And I got to the point in lockdown when we were sort of, everyone was sort of...

Lockdown for me was probably the most stressful time of my life because we were in the retail space and so that was the only industry that was really booming because people thought it was the end of the world. And so we were trying to our products and products stocked on shelf. And so it was a real stressful time for me. And it was during that period that I sat back and I thought to myself,

Ramon Vela (12:08.821)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (12:22.624)
I want to own my own brand because if you look at our original business, which is still in operation today and still very successful, if you went up 40,000 foot, I'm in the middle between a retailer and a manufacturer. I'm in the middle between a retailer and a manufacturer. And that's margin. And in today's day and age, know, retail is one more margin. And they're looking for ways to squeeze.

Ramon Vela (12:40.501)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (12:50.572)
the supplier or the agent or the distributor. And so I saw that as high risk for our business. And so I said to myself, I want to start a brand where I can try my own destiny. And my partner, Hayley, who was the original owner and founder of Bare Fruit, sorry, let's start that again. It's Bare Yo-Yo Shoes. Can we start that part again, Ramon?

Ramon Vela (13:19.679)
Sure, pause. Do you need a second to think about it?

Jonathan (13:21.742)
Pause. Yeah, just, it's not bear fruit, because there's another bear, and I don't want to say the wrong thing. It's the bear, she was the original owner of bear.

Ramon Vela (13:33.809)
Okay, are you ready? I can count us back in. Okay, so unpause one, two, three,

Jonathan (13:36.802)
Yes.

Jonathan (13:41.038)
So I am sorry, now I've lost my train of thought. So the question was, so I've now got myself confused now. So the question was, I was talking about.

Ramon Vela (13:44.885)
It's alright. Here, let me do that again.

Ramon Vela (13:58.133)
So you were about to just say that you're about your co-founder or, know, Kaylee. And then you were saying that she was the original and then that's where you, okay. So you can just kind of start from there and I'll count us back in. Okay. Unpause one, two, three, go.

Jonathan (14:04.462)
I'll see you.

Jonathan (14:16.942)
So my partner, Hayley, who was the original founder and creator of Bear, which is famous for the Bear Yo-Yo, we teamed up together. I said to her, I would like to create a brand with her because she's a brand genius. And I had the know-how of bringing a product to market. And so I said to her, let's create a brand.

Ramon Vela (14:28.351)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (14:45.036)
that we can bring into the US market that it'll disrupt the fruit snack category, leveraging off what she'd done with Bay and leveraging off our expertise of bringing a product to market. And so we then decided to create FruitDeaf together. And then we involved my two brothers into the business. And so the four of us, we decided to take the product to market.

leveraging of infrastructure that we have with our existing business, bringing products to market and the skill of Hayley of creating a brand. She's just incredible with brand creation.

Ramon Vela (15:22.142)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (15:26.249)
Well, and but how did the fruit component and the way that it's designed come together? Was that already in place? Because I've actually never seen that before.

Jonathan (15:36.974)
So, what the product? So we met, we sort of sat down and we put together some thoughts in terms of how we would like to disrupt the product, the industry. And so we went to a factory that we worked with and that we worked with and we asked them if they could produce this for us.

And we then went into an R &D phase and we trialed and trialed and trialed and eventually we found the exact recipe and the exact product that we wanted. And we knew that exactly that is what that that was a winner. We knew we could see based on the experience and the history of what we've done collectively over our years. We're like, that's it. We've got it. And then we presented that to, to Costco actually. Costco was the first retailer that we presented.

Ramon Vela (16:18.856)
you

Ramon Vela (16:25.269)
Well.

Jonathan (16:35.266)
the concept to. And the buyer just said to us, I've been looking for this product for five years. I will take every single strand that you can produce. And that's how we basically started. We were very lucky. Costco has been an amazing client of ours.

Ramon Vela (16:36.969)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (16:42.794)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (16:48.213)
Ramon Vela (16:53.098)
And you already had previous connections with them, correct? Like you already, you knew who they were.

Jonathan (16:56.962)
Yes, we supplied them in other categories over the years. And so we just, we decided to call up and just have a chat with the buyer and see if we were on the right path, you know. so we phoned up, I made an appointment and Haley and I sat on Zoom and because we were still in lockdown, we could, no one could travel anymore. And we had a Zoom call with her.

Ramon Vela (17:11.029)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (17:20.053)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jonathan (17:27.138)
She was based in the Northeast and we were in Cape Town and we basically showed her over the phone.

Ramon Vela (17:31.157)
And what was it about the snack that she felt like, this is something I've been looking for. Was it because it was a kid's snack that was fun? Was it because of the ingredients? Was it the formulation? What do you think from her perspective she found so engaging?

Jonathan (17:54.734)
I think it is a combination of all of that. If you look at the fruit snack category today, which is dominated by a lot of the big brands, they claim to be a fruit snack, but the first ingredients on the product is sugar or organic cane sugar or high fructose corn syrup. There's nothing that's really healthy for you. so, Haley and I, we're...

Ramon Vela (18:04.447)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (18:21.311)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (18:24.056)
We're passionate about health. We're passionate about our kids. And we wanted to put something on the table that one delivers on taste and flavor and other thing that just delivers on health. So for us, it was a pretty easy sell. And on top of that, it was something fun and different. And as you said in the beginning, you've never seen something like this before. And I think that's what buyers are looking for.

Ramon Vela (18:39.797)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (18:48.906)
Yeah.

Jonathan (18:53.848)
They're for something, they're not looking for a Me Too product. They're not looking for another can of baked beans. They want something that'll keep the feet coming into their stall. They want to be known for innovation. They want to be known for something different. And I think the Fruit Thief and the brand in terms of what we showed her was completely different in that category. And that's why she jumped.

Ramon Vela (18:56.863)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (19:17.715)
Yeah. So given the fact that you already knew or you had this background already, so that kind of gave you a leg up a little bit in terms of bringing products to market. But was there anything that you that you personally felt that was different or or was new or was, you know,

something that you hadn't thought of before that kind of stumped you, you know, in, because you're kind of in a new role now. I mean, you're kind of doing a little bit of the same what you were doing before, but now this is your baby. Like this is your product. This is the thing that you're bringing to market. Was there anything different, I guess, from what you were doing before to now having this, your own brand? Was there something unexpected that you didn't count on?

Jonathan (19:51.758)
Thank

Jonathan (20:08.226)
I think when you, you so my original business is all traditionally private label. So the risk has always sat with the retailer, you know, so I have, even though my business takes care of all of the artwork and the technical compliance and the raw material and the distribution, at the end of the day, it still belongs to the retailer. And so the risk kind of sits with them.

Ramon Vela (20:16.949)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (20:34.761)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (20:36.534)
When it's your own brand, the risk sits with yourself. So, you know, I'm, I'm, paying for my inventory. I'm paying for my own product. I'm shipping my own product. I'm warehousing my own product and, and, and I'm hoping that people are going to buy my product. Whereas with a retailer that is, that is signed off a private label brand, I'm delivering the product into their distribution center and they're taking care of everything else, you know.

Ramon Vela (20:49.332)
Thank

Ramon Vela (21:05.737)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (21:06.132)
So it's been a huge learning curve for myself and my brothers and our business because we have now had to really sort of put all chips on the table because this is ours now, you know, and we cannot afford to mess this up. So we really treat this like our baby and we give it a lot of attention and a lot of love.

Ramon Vela (21:34.173)
Hmm. Yeah. mean, I, I, I, even though like mechanically you're doing some of the same stuff, just the fact now that you have money on the line and it's your risk and all of that. I mean, it's, it's up here, right? I mean, obviously it's, there's a risk, there's a real risk because it's your financially concerned about it too. But a lot of it is up here. It's like that slight change, you know, it's like in your mind now it's like, wait a minute.

Jonathan (22:00.524)
Yeah. Exactly.

Ramon Vela (22:04.859)
So yeah, that I can tell. So the Costco, so normally I ask about what your biggest milestone was in terms of understanding or realizing that this is a really, it's going to be a good business, right? It could potentially be a good business. From a win perspective, was that that Costco story that you just described?

Jonathan (22:31.562)
Absolutely. It's every manufacturer's dream to get into Costco. usually, you we did it the opposite way. Most people start by getting a product into the corner store and growing organically that way. We basically got almost like a national footprint overnight. And everybody shops at Costco. Everyone thinks, you know, what can I get next at Costco? And for us, we've just been so blessed.

Ramon Vela (22:49.716)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (23:01.41)
because when we now go and see other retailers and we deal with other mom and pops or independents, a lot of them will be like, we saw you in Costco. And that just gives you instant credibility. Just overnight, you go from an idea to a brand. And if you make it into a Costco store, you've made it, apparently.

Ramon Vela (23:15.658)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (23:30.389)
Thank

Jonathan (23:32.234)
And they're a lovely customer to have, they really are.

Ramon Vela (23:36.289)
And so, so we know your win, but what was, what, what was your first milestone in terms of, the biggest challenges you faced? and I don't know, maybe if that's not, I mean, that might be even a mute question because you launched this during the pandemic, which for most people, most brands who existed before or were launched, just launched, that was probably like one of the biggest challenges they faced.

For you guys, even though you got into Costco, was the pandemic still a big challenge or what was that big challenge where you first realized like, this is not good. We have to overcome this.

Jonathan (24:20.184)
So we really rode the wave of COVID actually. At the time, people were shopping at home, people were, there was a lot of paranoia around being out. so people were buying in large volumes. They were going to stores quickly and picking up as much as they could. I think the biggest challenge for us, Ramon, has actually been recently with these tariffs.

Ramon Vela (24:43.946)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (24:50.286)
For us, that has been a not threat, but it's been a huge sort of thing for us as a young business owner, or as a young brand, because our product is imported into the US. It's produced in South Africa, in Cape Town, South Africa.

Ramon Vela (24:50.303)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (25:05.205)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (25:15.246)
You know, all of our raw materials are all locally sourced and all of our fruits is from the farms. It comes straight from the farm, straight to the factory produced and we ship it out. And we have a certain cost that we have to that we landed into the US with the tariffs that have kind of come out now. You know, we have a 10 % tariff going into the US on top of the existing pricing that we have. There's these reciprocal tariffs that we still trying to navigate through.

Ramon Vela (25:39.827)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (25:45.006)
which means that South Africa charges the US, I guess, a 27 % duty on product coming into South Africa. We get the same tariff now going into the US. So we go from having a product that is very reasonably priced for the consumer in the US to all of a sudden, we're either faced with a 10 % or we're definitely faced with a 10%, but in a further 27 % on top of that.

our pricing is going to have to adjust by almost 40%. And that's a sensitive space for a consumer. Consumers are feeling the pinch in their pockets. And as a brand, you always want to be competitive. And when you get hit with something like that, then you really have to of relook at being creative in terms of

Ramon Vela (26:17.875)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (26:43.438)
bringing that into the US. So I would say that's been my biggest challenge in the last three years.

Ramon Vela (26:45.522)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (26:49.107)
Yeah, I mean, it is for a lot of brands and it's hard too, because just yesterday, the US, a federal court just blocked some of those tariffs. So from your perspective and also from businesses here in the United States, there's a lot of uncertainty. Like, do you make a huge change, raise a price and then the tariff doesn't happen? Like, know, the tariff gets rolled back or...

Jonathan (26:59.811)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (27:19.113)
You know what

Jonathan (27:19.458)
We're having sleepless nights about it because we don't know what to do. And every day is different. And you can't plan. It's not like I can just decide today I'm going to put on a truck and deliver it tomorrow. I've got a 42-day sailing into the US. I've got a production schedule. I've got a lot of things on the back end before I even get it.

Ramon Vela (27:27.007)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (27:30.388)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (27:41.577)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (27:48.962)
to the port. And so we have pulled forward a lot of our orders and we're shipping products ahead of a lot of the cutoffs that have been put in place. That we can at least keep enough inventory in the US while the administration decides which way to go, you know, because

Ramon Vela (28:05.001)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (28:15.634)
you

Jonathan (28:16.494)
At the of the day, don't want our customers to suffer for it. But unfortunately, there's going to come a point where the customer is going to suffer for it. And we don't want to be like...

Ramon Vela (28:24.234)
Yeah.

Yeah. And if you raise prices too fast, too quickly, then you can alienate some customers. And then if those tariffs get rolled back, then do you roll back the prices? Do you keep the prices where they are? I mean, there's a lot of variables to keep in mind and it's tough. It's a tough decision for you guys.

Jonathan (28:30.606)
you.

Jonathan (28:52.142)
I think there's a lot of brands that are going through the same thing. There's a lot of imports that happen into the US and there's some really cool product that comes in from countries that are just known for those types of products. It's a global problem that guys... And the US is a massive consumer market for us. And so it's a big problem that we need to...

Ramon Vela (28:56.917)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (29:18.058)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (29:21.678)
trying to to the bottom of, guess. And understand why it's happening, but at the same time, it's almost like quite extreme.

Ramon Vela (29:26.088)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (29:32.189)
Yeah. And have you ever thought about bringing manufacturing to the United States? I interviewed a brand. Go ahead, Jonathan.

Jonathan (29:38.37)
Well, that's... Yeah.

Jonathan (29:43.156)
No, no, sorry, I interrupted you there.

Ramon Vela (29:45.181)
no, no, I was just saying, I interviewed a brand that part of their, there's a different product, obviously, they're hemp infused products for like pets and things like that. And so they're out of Dublin, I think. And they're starting a small manufacturing plant in New York because they figured, you know, it's going to be too tough to fight some of the other tariff stuff. So they thought that, you know, they'll build it here.

Not everyone could do that. And, know, there's all sorts of different variables around that as well. But has that, has that been something you thought about?

Jonathan (30:20.27)
Yes, definitely. Yeah, I mean, as a brand, you know, we're growing like crazy. We're the fastest growing fruit snack brand in the US. And we need to make a plan. So, you know, also, you can't just set up a factory in five minutes. So it's, you know, it's something that we would definitely consider and look at.

Ramon Vela (30:22.718)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (30:37.045)
Yeah.

Jonathan (30:46.958)
but we're to try and sort of migrate our way through the challenges today and ultimately get to that point, even if we have it packed in the US. So it's still produced on our lines here, but then ship it in a bulk format and then have it packed in the US, which might help us from that perspective. So, you know, when you're an entrepreneur, you have to think of everything, you know. It's, every day is different. Every day is you wake up and you think, what?

Ramon Vela (31:06.003)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (31:10.462)
Yeah.

Jonathan (31:16.31)
is going to happen today that I need to deal with. And that's one of the things of being an entrepreneur is it's not all hunky dory. It's not all like lying on the beach reading the Times newspaper. It's you hands on in all decisions of your business.

Ramon Vela (31:25.407)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (31:35.829)
Yeah. And in terms of, so the US market versus other markets and what has been, and not just the US market, but overall, what has been the biggest challenge in terms of brand awareness? Because you've got this amazing product. Costco obviously is a huge footprint for you and definitely helps with bringing awareness because there's so many people who visit Costco. mean, I was just there the other day.

always constantly packed, know, it's always tons of people in there. but obviously that's not the only way, right? Like you have to do social media, you have to do other things. do you guys have a, or did you guys also, along with Costco start with a DTC strategy?

Jonathan (32:23.278)
So we started off with Costco first, and then we grew into some other retailers. We do have a very strong presence on Amazon. And Amazon for us has also been a very, good platform for us. And then we've just been growing organically through independence. A lot of independence have been picking us up. So it's...

Ramon Vela (32:33.555)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (32:50.424)
Costco has been the big footprint that has sort of landed us nationally and now we've got other retailers that have been picking us up which are also giving us a bit of a national footprint. And then we, it's all happened really quickly actually. We're in the process of still getting ourselves up and running from a social media perspective. We do have a social media presence which we are getting better and better at. And we're also working with some marketing.

Ramon Vela (32:59.583)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (33:19.682)
guys to help us really get the name out there from a brand perspective. But again, this is all new stuff for us. We've always relied on the retailer to do all the marketing because it's their brand. We're getting there and we're doing it smartly. We're still a small business in the grand scheme of things. And so we have to stretch our dollars as best as we can.

Ramon Vela (33:23.445)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (33:29.557)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (33:37.513)
Yeah.

Jonathan (33:49.346)
You know, do we pay for a promo to get the product out there or do we pay for a demo at a retailer? Or do we put those dollars into social media or do put those dollars into an advert? You know, so we're trying to sort of see where our dollars are best being spent. For us, we're seeing the biggest return on demo. you need, all you need is for one kid to put it in their mouth and they just can't stop.

Ramon Vela (33:49.918)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (33:59.647)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (34:16.981)
you

Jonathan (34:18.094)
And so for us, demo is definitely the way that we're winning with getting the product.

Ramon Vela (34:21.481)
Yeah. Well, and you know, the sort of like the online version of that in some ways is, like, social media, know, whether it's influencer or, you know, organic, postings, the product is so I think visually interesting, right? It's not just a snack, like, you know, like it's not just a bar. not just, you know, it's, it's interesting visually. Like it's almost like it's.

It's almost made for social media. know, like you can, I can see people untangling it and you know, looking at it and everything else. So, I don't know. I have a feeling that I think it'll do well, on a, on a sort of a social media standpoint, TikTok and Instagram, et cetera. By the way, let me just make sure everybody knows if you want to take a look at what we've been talking about, you can go to the fruit. Let me just make sure. sorry. Fruit thief.com. So it's just.

Jonathan (34:53.389)
Yeah, it is.

Ramon Vela (35:20.351)
Fruit and fruit is spelled F-R-O-T and then the word thief.com. Fruitthief.com is the website that you can take a look at. on video, we'll make sure to have that video page pop up when we finally upload this on YouTube. But for now, just go to fruitthief.com and you can take a look at what we're gonna be talking about in just a second.

So Jonathan, let me, I want to get into talking about the product, but I do have one other sort of entrepreneurial question to ask you. Given your experience, not only with private label, but also bringing this product to market and then your experience and trying to build awareness and growth, both on the retail side as well as the online side. What, oh, and also given the fact that, you know, the store, the gratitude story you gave, is there any,

advice, entrepreneurial advice that you would give to someone who came to you and said, Hey, I'm thinking of starting a snack brand or I'm thinking of starting a business or I think kind of doing this. Is there anything that you would share with them that I don't know, either will help them, give them an advantage, or maybe just a warning as to like the potholes on the road that they should try to avoid.

Jonathan (36:47.65)
I think for me as an entrepreneur, you've got to believe in what you have. And a lot of the time, think people get despondent or discouraged by, you you go to someone with an idea and someone say, you'll never be able to do it. There's this company, this company. And I think one of the things that I've learned through our business career is that if you believe in something,

Ramon Vela (37:17.13)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (37:17.644)
then go for it. someone will give you a chance and it all just stacks up one after the other. So believe in yourself, believe in your product, believe in what you want to achieve and expect tough days. I think there's sometimes an illusion of it's easy.

because you only see the successful guys and them flying around in private jets and living the life. No one knows about all of the failures that they've gone through, all of the times that they really struggled. I think as an entrepreneur, you need to expect that it's going to be a tough, long road. And you need, as you said in the beginning of this podcast, you need some grit. You need to just dig deep. There's going to be days where you're to want to

Ramon Vela (37:52.821)
you

Jonathan (38:16.216)
throw the towel in and walk away, but there's gonna be days that you think, she's thank God I stayed in it. So I think that's maybe some advice that I would pass on.

Ramon Vela (38:27.869)
Yeah, well, I mean, and those are great, great pieces of advice. I know I put you on the spot there a little bit, but I mean, those are, no, those are great pieces. Cause I mean, the reality is you, you've already provided some really great advice, even just in telling your story, but there's so many things that go on for an entrepreneur in building a business that it's unlimited. I mean, we could, we could talk for hours and we'll really start breaking down.

every little thing that you kind of, have to go through because, but these two I think are really good because the one thing that I always feel, we don't do this enough as a society, think, but for entrepreneurs, we are people who we put ourselves in a situation where we are going to have to

go against our comfort zones. have to deal with confrontation. have to deal with not just challenges, tough decisions. We have to push past our emotional limits sometimes because we have to just keep going even when we don't feel good that day. even above that, it's like you have to

Jonathan (39:26.732)
Yeah.

Jonathan (39:33.806)
tough decisions.

Jonathan (39:53.158)
You sacrifice. You have to weekends, birthday parties, Thanksgiving. mean, there's so many times where you have to sacrifice so much and believe in it. You're sacrificing it for a reason. So I think that's the other thing.

Ramon Vela (39:55.059)
Macros nice.

Ramon Vela (40:01.129)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (40:19.411)
Yeah. Well, and, that's what I mean is like, I think the toughest thing is kind of like what you described. It's really the mental and emotional side of it. It's like, have to, you know, you, if you're going to sacrifice, if you're going to push every day, if you're going to get up and get out of bed, even when you don't want to do it and so forth, you have to have that belief. You have to have that why that's going to keep, keep pushing you because if you do it, what I've noticed that sometimes I've met founders who,

exit their business, know, seven figures, eight figures. And they've been hustling, you know, for years and years. And then all of a sudden they get this, you know, the windfall, they get this exit. And then they look and they think, you know, like, I'm not really, you know, like they're not prepared for all of that. They're not prepared for not having this, not having that. They're not prepared emotionally.

Because they just been grinding and they realized like, wait a minute, I've kind of like lost myself. Now I don't even know who I am without this business. And this is what I'm saying is that, you know, I feel like when you have a strong why, it reminds you why you do certain things. Even post the business, you, you feel good. You feel like, you know what, we accomplished what we, what we set out to do.

Jonathan (41:28.47)
Yeah.

Jonathan (41:34.574)
It becomes like your baby and you live, eat and breathe it and when you sell it, it's like you don't know what to do with yourself.

Ramon Vela (41:37.077)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (41:48.277)
Yeah, I mean, it's crazy. And that's what I mean. I think from an emotional standpoint, as an entrepreneur, we need to really fortify our mindset and our emotions because it's tough. And the expectation thing is also really important too, because I always feel like if I'm going into a new venture, I personally always look at what's the downside?

What are all the downsides that can happen? What's the worst that can happen? And can I work my way out of that or can I deal with that? But just knowing upfront, like what all the negativities or what the expectations are, like, you

Jonathan (42:29.39)
You could write down a hundred negatives about what it is. And I promise you right now, there was not COVID on the list, I would have done. There was not tariffs on the list. There was nothing like that. So, you know, you can write down as many as you want. I can guarantee you now there'll be another hundred on top of that, that you didn't even think about. You know?

Ramon Vela (42:32.648)
Ha ha.

Ramon Vela (42:37.661)
Yeah, that's right.

Ramon Vela (42:50.257)
yeah, yeah. All right. So this is a good segue to talking about the product. So I know we've talked a little bit about it and so forth. So I want you to make sure that you go to fruitthief.com. Fruitthief.com. F-R-O-O-T is fruit and then thief. The word thief.com is where you go to see this product.

Now it's really an amazing product. you've got these really great packaging, you know, and you've got a variety of different ones. and I've, I've unfortunately, I don't have the rest. My daughter, as I mentioned before, my daughter took it upon herself to really just enjoy the, you know, enjoy the product. Well, I appreciate that.

Jonathan (43:26.126)
Thank

Jonathan (43:35.331)
Yeah.

Jonathan (43:40.993)
I'm going to give you some more to taste and you'll have them.

Ramon Vela (43:45.749)
So yeah, so you go to Fruit Thief and I have the website up and running right now. It's colorful. I mean, it's very, very colorful. So it's amazing being able to have this really amazing product where you're just like, wow, it's like, it's right there for you. And the packaging is bright and beautiful. And whoever did that did a really great job at doing that. I just love this product. I mean, it is...

The packaging and everything is amazing, but the inside is where I was just like, whoa, this is, I've never seen anything like this. I mean, I've seen things sort of similar, but at first, to your point earlier, I was like, how do I eat this? Like, how do I, know, do I just take a bite out of this? And do I just, you know, cause it comes up rolled up and you wonder, what do I do with this? And then my daughter actually started untangling it exactly. It's just like you have right there.

she started untangling it and eating it little by little like that, or wrapping it around her fingers or things like that. yeah, I mean, it's just an amazing, it's amazing snack. It's not only great nutritionally, like it has better nutritional panel than some of the other stuff that is out in the market, but it's also fun. So let's start there. Like what are people gonna find in terms of like the...

the ingredients, what do you want to call out around in terms of the ingredients? I know you mentioned a little bit before.

Jonathan (45:15.448)
Well, think from, so we have four flavors. We've got strawberry, apple, mango, and grape. We're coming out with grape now in the summer. We have a special pack for Costco, which we did a strawberry and a mixed berry. I think where we've been really good is that we've had very simple flavors, very simple flavors that would really resonate with kids. Kids don't want complicated stuff. They wanna eat mango, they wanna eat an apple, they wanna eat...

Ramon Vela (45:42.185)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (45:44.84)
grape. So we've been very diligent and very strategic around our flavors. All of our ingredients are real. We're using real apple, we're real mango, we're using real fruit, which we wanted to create a healthy for you snack. Each bag

is from a nutritional perspective, equivalent to cup of fruit. So moms and dads, we're building up lot of trust with them, where they know that when they put fruit tea for the lunchbox or at a soccer event, that their son or daughter is getting a healthy snack. We don't have any...

colorants or azodars or any starches or gumming agents or anything like that. It's a clean product and that's what we've really sort of been proud about is that we put a clean proud sorry clean great tasting product on the shelf.

Ramon Vela (46:53.749)
Yeah, and the term, I didn't even think about it before. The term, what is it saying? What is it? Fruit spaghetti. I didn't think about that. That makes total sense. I didn't think about that, but that makes perfect sense. And.

Jonathan (47:08.181)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like this little piece of here, there we go.

Jonathan (47:16.334)
Our tagline is 100 inches of fruit fun. So, you know, each bag is 100 inches. And so it's a fun interactive snack. you know, kids have a lot of fun with it. And I think that's what we wanted to do. We want to have us, you know, we want to create a fun environment where kids actually enjoy eating fruit. You know, if you say to a lot of kids, you know,

Ramon Vela (47:20.309)
Hmm.

Jonathan (47:45.71)
eat the fruit, a lot of them will be like, no, I don't eat fruit. But this is a fun interactive way for them to enjoy their snack.

Ramon Vela (47:49.653)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (47:58.417)
And how many flavors do you have? I'm looking at the web site right now. You've got strawberry or apple, mango.

Jonathan (48:01.216)
Awesome.

Jonathan (48:07.298)
mango, we've got a mixed berry, we've got strawberry, we've apple, and then we're launching with grape, or not launching, but we're coming out with a grape flavor with Costco. It's coming out in June and July. So, personally, think grape is gonna be a humdinger. I think the grape is just, when you open up the bag, you just smell just grape.

Ramon Vela (48:23.743)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (48:36.686)
But strawberries definitely our top seller by far. And then we have mango and the apple close behind it.

Ramon Vela (48:47.733)
Yeah, and the mango one, I forgot to mention that one. That one went really fast in my house. I think you sent that if I'm not mistaken. But my son, I have a son who's a little older, but he loves mango. And I think he pretty much went to 10 on that one as well.

Jonathan (48:55.735)
Yes, we did.

Jonathan (49:05.902)
Mango is a huge flavor in the US and we've had huge success with the mango flavor. Everybody wants mango.

Ramon Vela (49:18.281)
Yeah, I know it's very, very popular. Even like dried mango, I noticed a lot of people eating the dried mango. I grew up eating mango too. My mother loved it and she would always make some for us. And so where can people find it? I mean, you mentioned Costco, but are there any partners, any other partners that we should be looking for?

Jonathan (49:36.974)
So we are growing across the US, Ramon. We are in Sprouts nationally. We're in Fresh Market. So not fresh, we're in Fresh Town, a central market. We're in independence all across the US. There's our Metropolitan, we're in Amazon, Brookshire Brothers, Plum Market. And the list is just, that's a very outdated list, but we are...

We're just growing into tons and tons of retailers. are being sort of selected. There's like a review process that we have to go through with a of retailers. They do specific sort of cut-ins and reviews. And we're probably sitting with about 30 retailers that are waiting for us to go through their specific snack category review.

We have some really big retailers that are on the verge of signing us off for end of the year sort of listing. And then Amazon. Amazon for us is a great platform for us getting the product out. We've got some really cool deals on Amazon where you can buy a bigger format of Fruit Thief so that you could sit it in the pantry and you can just have...

We call it our caddy and we have 24 units in a caddy which is a perfect Amazon shipper and that sits in your pantry and doesn't last very long because kids will eat two or three in the middle of time.

Ramon Vela (51:25.343)
So I don't wanna put you on the spot here, I mean, thus far in this conversation, and then I wanna be respectful of your time too, cause I know it's late your time, but thus far, I mean, I really love everything about the brand. mean, the product tastes good, cause we talked about that. You know, my tagline is products worth buying, brands we're supporting. And the...

because product is always has to be number one. Like the taste has to be good. Even though like me as a consumer, as I mentioned to you, I'm happy to power through certain foods if I know they're really good for me. But you know, the majority of consumers as well as like kids and teens, they taste is paramount. Like that's the number one thing. Even if it's good for you, it's gotta taste good. And I have to tell you like this, I think meets that. mean, it's a good profile in terms of what the ingredients are, but it's also...

great tasting. So you've already, you've got it there. Like I feel like that's really, that you've got that combination already going for you. But I also want to know, I also want to put you a little bit on the spot, you know, to tie this knot, to like really make it a good, a good argument for, for parents to try. And I really would love for you to share some of those things that you do.

some of the things that you're very proud of about this brand that maybe we don't hear about it or maybe we don't read about it here on the website. Is there anything that you can think of that you're just really proud of that if consumer or listener heard this, it would really make a difference in their buying decision?

Jonathan (53:06.958)
So the, our factory is not as automated as a lot of factories are in the US. The process is obviously very much automated. But along the process in terms of the factory line, the production line, most of the people that work within our factory are female.

And they all are from, South Africa is obviously a third world country. the moms or the women that are working on the production line are basically the main breadwinners of the family. So we're quite proud in the fact that the women that we're employing are helping on the equivalence of nine people in their household. So

Ramon Vela (53:53.471)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (54:04.238)
you know, all the orders that come in, I actually went and worked on the production line, just to see how, how, how these women, know, they, they, they work tirelessly day in and day out packing our product for us. And so I went and I went on to the production line and I worked with some of these ladies and they are just wonderful people and they're doing a hard day's work. And, they're so proud of the fact that this product is actually ending up in the U S which

Ramon Vela (54:31.775)
Mm-hmm.

Jonathan (54:33.344)
is a place that none of them will ever get to, unfortunately. That's just the reality of their lives that they live. So for us at Fruit Thief, we're proud of our staff in terms of the ladies that are on the production line that are packing the product for us every single day.

Ramon Vela (54:49.897)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (54:55.241)
Yeah, and to that point, many people who have these jobs are able then to, it's not just their families who they're supporting, but they support, because of these jobs, they're able to support their communities and improve their communities. So that's another thing, because in many of these cultures,

they, you know, the woman is a central figure in the community. And if they're able to bring that, it not only just helps them, like I said, to their family, but it also helps their communities. And, you you're providing an opportunity for people to do good work and to build a great product and so forth. So yeah, I mean, I love that. There is...

There's so much to love about this and I haven't checked your Instagram yet, but I just feel like this is a great, you know, social media, you know, type of product because that whole, I'm telling you, when I opened it up, I looked at this and I thought, this is interesting. I've never had anything like this. How do you eat it? What do you do? And so forth. and so to me, it was, it was fun just kind of figuring that part out. And I can just imagine,

when people see this, especially young teens and kids, I think it's pretty cool. I just, my hope.

Jonathan (56:24.142)
We're bring it to life. We're gonna bring the fruit leaf to life. That's the next thing you wanna do. I've got a friend of mine, a really dear friend of mine who is an animator. And he says to me, Jonathan, every time I see the fruit leaf, I just wanna bring this to life. And so I think for us, the next thing we're gonna do now is actually we're gonna create a character out of this guy. We really wanna believe in our fruit leaf. We're really passionate about it.

Ramon Vela (56:28.949)
you

Ramon Vela (56:47.711)
Hmm.

Jonathan (56:53.486)
And I think if kids can resonate with our brand, it's just going to set them up for healthy living down the line. So that for us is what we're to do next. Apart from bringing other products to the market too.

Ramon Vela (57:03.775)
Yeah, no.

Yeah, well actually that was my last question is given your success with Fruit Thief, obviously there's probably more flavor that you want to add, but are there any other products, other form factors, other things that are in the fruit area that we can expect? I don't know if you can share any of that, but.

Jonathan (57:29.292)
So we are, for us, we have a big innovation engine. We've got a lot of products in the hopper. You can interview me for the next one. I'll tell you about the next one. But we've got some really cool ideas that we have, that we're busy working on now, which will be the next iteration of the Fruit Thief. So you'll be the first guy that I'll come and tell Ramon.

Ramon Vela (57:54.965)
I appreciate it. this has been great, man. I, I, again, I want to be respectful of your time because it's late yours, your time. It's probably. Yeah, no, I did too. So I appreciate you making time. This is like I said, I think this is a product worth buying, a brand we're supporting, such a great story, but also just a really great product tastes great. It is different. You know, if you're out there listening, it is different.

Jonathan (57:59.139)
Thank you.

Thank you so much, I really enjoyed this.

Ramon Vela (58:22.269)
But it's fun different, right? Like you, kind of don't know how to eat it, but he can explain it to you. got to untangle it. It's like fruit spaghetti, which is a great term I hadn't even thought of. but it's really fun and it'll keep your kids engaged, but also eating a healthy snack. And it's just, you know, it's just, it's all, all around fun. So go check it out.

Jonathan (58:42.958)
You know that Disney movie with Lady and the Tramp and they eat spaghetti. We need to get a TikTok thing going where we have two people getting the spaghetti, the food, but they're basically smooching each other online.

Ramon Vela (58:47.817)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, that's a social media. That's a great, you know.

Jonathan (58:58.83)
I just thought about it now actually while you were talking.

Ramon Vela (59:02.197)
That's a great user gen, like if a user, if users did that, that would be fantastic. Yeah. And so everyone else, go to fruitthief.com. Don't forget that fruit is spelled F-R-O-T, thief.com. So fruitthief.com. Go check them out. I think you're going to find it very, very interesting.

Jonathan (59:07.916)
Yeah, exactly. See how you can kiss your girlfriend.

Ramon Vela (59:27.783)
As I said, for me, my perspective, I actually didn't want to open this one up because I, I, I want to save this for my daughter, but I mean, it is, let me, I'll just do it as a last thing here. So you guys can see the, see it here and you can open it up and you can pull it out and there you go. See it's like, it's all rolled up. It's all rolled up. This one is the strawberry and so it's all rolled up.

Jonathan (59:32.878)
No, please do. I'm gonna get you more. Please do.

Jonathan (59:50.126)
But you got to untangle it now. That's, that's, we're going have some fun with it.

Ramon Vela (59:57.701)
And you can untangle it and you see how, fun it is and you can untangle it. Now, how you eat it from here is kind of like your kid's adventure, like how they, how they figured it out. But I saw my daughter, she would be taking these things up and then wrapping it around her fingers and eating it that way. So you can do all sorts of stuff with this. and it truly is sort of like a fruit spaghetti and it's a nice, it's a nice snack.

Jonathan (01:00:15.928)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

We just, uh, are you just to do this?

Ramon Vela (01:00:27.433)
Yeah, or you did like that. It's a, it really is entertaining. I actually, we went hiking and we took some of these with us. remember. so this is, this is really great. So go visit the website. think you guys would be happy to see this really interesting snack. It's not only, like I said, good nutritional value or a better for you in nutritional value. It's, also a fun snack to, to, to play with. so go check it out.

Jonathan (01:00:35.075)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (01:00:53.475)
everyone out there, have just had Jonathan Cornish who is head bandit. Now you understand what the bandit is. He's and co-founder of fruit thief. again, fruitthief.com is a website. We're going to have that link on our podcast subscription, which you could find on Apple or Spotify or pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts beyond that. Thank you, Jonathan. We truly appreciate you making time for us on the, on this show and

Jonathan (01:01:18.286)
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed it.

Ramon Vela (01:01:21.247)
Yeah, me too. And the snack, like I said, you have to try it. It's very good, but it's also fun to play with. And if you have trouble getting your kids to eat fruit or better for you snacks, this is definitely one that you want to give it a try. Beyond that, everyone, stay safe, stay sane, healthy. Again, go to the website, fruitthief.com, check them out, see if there's something there for you. And then beyond that, thank you from the bottom of my heart. actually, one more thing.

We've all been going through a lot of stuff. Today we talked a lot about the challenges around entrepreneurship and the mental challenges and the grit and all of that. I understand that that's something that pretty much everybody needs. We're going through a lot of changes with the pandemic and these tariffs and geopolitical wars and politics and everything else. It's a little stressful out there. So let's just do ourselves a favor and let's remember that everyone is going through something. And if we can just kind of remember that and just be a little kinder to each other.

Jonathan (01:02:15.81)
become.

Ramon Vela (01:02:18.141)
we can make this human experience a better one. Beyond that, thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening to another episode of the story of a brand.

Jonathan (01:02:20.832)
Absolutely.