Vitaminis - The Problem With Vitamins No One Talks About

Rose Hamilton (00:00)
Hello, I'm Rose Hamilton, the host of the Story of a Brand podcast, where we explore the journeys of over a thousand consumer brands, founders, and diving into their wins, their failures, and most importantly, the why behind the brands. Thank you for joining us today. Let me start by asking you something. Why are we still choking down vitamins in 2026? We've reinvented food, fitness, longevity.

but we're still swallowing pills that make us nauseous. And here's some of the part that should stop you. 75 % of people take supplements, but only 22 % actually enjoy it. So the problem, it's not belief. The problem is experience. And today's episode is about what happens when someone decides that experience is broken and they're going to go fix it. Before I introduce you to today's guest,

I want you to picture with me this. You've done everything right, corporate career, strong resume, a business idea sitting quietly in your head for years, and then life hits. You get laid off. You recover, go back to work, get laid off again. At the same time, you're raising a family, you're pregnant with your fourth child, and then your child is born with unexpected health challenges that will change your life forever. Now, most people in that moment

They pause, they retreat, they play it safe, but some people have courage. They build it anyway. Today's guest is one of those people. Leslie Danford is a founder of Vitaminies, a brand rethinking how we deliver nutrition by turning vitamins into something people actually want to take. But what makes this story most powerful isn't just the product. It's how she built it through uncertainty, through motherhood, through real life pressure.

And instead of chasing growth at all costs, she built the foundation first. And now Nationwide in Sprouts, launching into Walmart and the vitamin shop, 60 % repeat rate. Leslie, welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you here with me today.

Leslie Danford (02:08)
Thank you so much. Wow, you are a storyteller. Even my own story. I'm like, it's so compelling when you say it.

Rose Hamilton (02:13)
No.

Thank you. You've got a wonderful story and we're going to talk lots more about it. So let's start here. Why does something that's supposed to make us healthier feel so miserable?

Leslie Danford (02:25)
I know. I don't know why that is, but I think it needs to change. I've always been a huge nutrition person ever since I was a little kid. And I think it's because my dad was my primary caregiver when I was growing up, my mom traveled lot for work, and he's a scientist, and he's not a foodie. And so it was always like a math problem, like, okay.

We need the protein, we need the vitamins, like what are all the components? And so I always kind of had that in my mind, but it's hard to check all those boxes. know, cooking all the fruits and veggies and getting everything from the natural sources is ideal, but it's so hard. And then yeah, pills, ugh, they're full of junk. They make me nauseous. Gummies are tasty, but they coat your teeth. I don't know why it has to be so difficult.

Rose Hamilton (03:10)
Well, and at what point did this go for you from being an interesting idea to I have to build this? I'm dying to know.

Leslie Danford (03:19)
Okay, it's quite a journey because I think it's easy to look from the outside and think that there's like this lightning bulb moment and all of a sudden you just wake up and have all this courage to like throw away your corporate job and start a company. That's not really how it worked for me. So I kind of think about it in phases. As a college student way back in the day, I had an interest in starting a company and I actually met my husband in this Chicago entrepreneurial club that we were in.

college and I didn't know what I wanted to start but I love the idea of building something. And then there was this long part of my career where I was kind of getting ready.

by learning how to be a general manager and building skills and working in the consumer products industry for larger companies. And it was all kind of like getting ready until one day kind of a mentality. And then I would say in the last few years of my corporate career, I started really thinking more seriously about the idea. I was struggling with my nutrition and how to check those boxes in my personal life. I was working in the beverage industry and seeing research

around nutrient density, clean label, ready to drink beverages. And it was kind of like forming in my mind that that was another five years. But you know, it really didn't I really didn't actually take any steps to do anything until I got laid off, which you had mentioned in the intro.

I don't think I would have ever just jumped out and done did it. But when I was laid off during COVID, I had time on my hands and I was trying to check the boxes to keep our my family's immune system healthy during COVID times. And I started tinkering with this idea I had for a clean label, natural food and beverage solution that delivered all the vitamins that you need to protect your immune system. And then I had some other functions as well. So it was kind of like this

long drawn out process that led me to where I am today.

Rose Hamilton (05:17)
So this is something founders really need to hear. Businesses aren't usually born from confidence. They're born from disruption. And I want to go somewhere most people don't go. How did you build a company when your life is actually hard?

Leslie Danford (05:32)
⁓ that's such a good question. ⁓ you know, I think for me, what it comes down to is breaking things down into tiny, tiny, tiny things. Because if you think about it, like everything in life that's great is built from tiny components. Nobody just snaps their fingers and has something great. Or if they do that, it's not actually great, right? Because it's all those little steps that add up that make something meaningful. so

When I was laid off during COVID, know, the kids, had three kids at the time, and I was soon to find out I was pregnant with my fourth, but I didn't know that yet at that time. And I didn't have childcare, the schools were closed. So I was out of work at home with my kids. And what I did was I...

I was looking for job that wasn't happening because during COVID no one was hiring. So I had this idea and I carved out one day a week. And I said, on this day, I'm going to find a babysitter who's willing to work during COVID times. And I'm going to use some of that time to like, know, exercise or like whatever I need to do. And I'm going to carve out some of that time to think about this idea.

And it started with thinking. It then evolved to conducting some interviews with friends and family. Like, what do you struggle with with nutrition? What do you like about what's out there? And that went on for months while I was still job searching. And I just kind of used that time and carved it out to just percolate on this idea. And lo and behold, over the months, it started to take form from.

my own thinking from the input I was getting from other people. And step by step, I got to the point where I actually started researching companies that could help me formulate an idea. And so it started with that first check that I wrote. It was not nothing, but it was not a huge amount of money, but it was enough to just see if the idea could actually be made, like see if I could just get a product in my hands. And so yeah, just step by step by step.

But I think that's the only way to do it, especially when things are hard. It can be very overwhelming to think about all the obstacles or how far you have to go. And even now, I think if I fully understood what building a business would take, I probably wouldn't have done it because it's so overwhelming. So you just kind of take that first step, second step, third step.

Rose Hamilton (07:46)
We hear that from so many founders and I think this is the truth people actually need. There is no perfect time to build. And sometimes the hardest seasons, like what you just described, create the clearest conviction. And when you think about building and what you're building, you shared with us talking to friends and family and thinking through it all. But what you build isn't just a product. It's really a behavior shift. So walk us through what that looks like.

with the drinks.

Leslie Danford (08:17)
Yes, you're so right. And vitamin E is we make these little mini drinks. But shots are relative shots is what most people call them wellness shots. call them mini drinks. But wellness shots, these little mini drinks is kind of a new category. It's been growing at over 30%, I 35 % last year, it was at 49 % a couple years ago when I first started, because it started small and it's pretty new. And the exciting thing about that, and also the challenging thing is that people

don't have a playbook for how to incorporate these mini drinks into their

Routines, know people understand. Okay, I'm thirsty. I'm gonna drink 12 ounces of something but or you know, I'm hungry I'm gonna eat a little snack or I need my vitamin so I'm gonna choke down a pill like those are kind of like Behaviors that are already established with people but how to incorporate a little mini drink into their routine is new So it's exciting because there's an opportunity to define it and it doesn't quite fit

exactly into any other boxes that are out there. It's not a supplement necessarily like a pill that you're going to take rigorously every single day. And it's also not a snack or a beverage that you're going to drink when you're thirsty or eat when you're hungry. It's like this in between. It's based on real foods and beverages delivering a great nutritional value, but super convenient. So pop it in your lunchbox, pop it in your gym bag. I have a lot of good customers that have a rich

sometimes with other family members. Like I have one customer every day with her son. They at breakfast do their little shots together of vitamin E's. So it's new and emerging, which is exciting, but I think there's a lot of opportunity to help people think through how to incorporate wellness shots or mini drinks into their routine.

Rose Hamilton (10:08)
You mentioned something when we were talking recently about how you're watching the 60 % repeat purchase come to life. Like how are people, like where's it living in their homes? Where does it live on the shelves? Is it a supplement? Is it a beverage? Tell us a little bit more about that consumer who's buying because you have such high repeat that I'd love to hear more about like how are they using it?

Leslie Danford (10:33)
Yes, and this is something I just love hearing from my good customers and asking them like, tell me what are you doing with this? Because I think that's another thing as an entrepreneur, I expected to kind of know all this, like in some sort of intellectual exercise, but a lot of it I learned from my own customers. So.

The way that my best customers are using vitamin E's is almost like another really healthy feel good option in their portfolio of nutritious options that they have.

So instead of forcing themselves or like making it really rigid every day, I have to do this. It's rather, okay, I feel like I didn't get my veggies today. So let me just grab a daily greens on my way out the door or, you know, my son is coming down with a cold. I'm going to put an immune support in his lunchbox. And so our best customers are treating it like that, which I think fits a little bit more into foods and beverages than it does supplements. But again, it's a little bit different because it's functional. It's actually something

of value more than just the calories in the juice, if you will. So my best customers are on subscription. They get it delivered straight to their door. It is shelf stable. They're usually popping it in the fridge. So it comes to their door, they pop it in the fridge, and then it's there for the taking throughout the month. ⁓ 12 shots a month comes out to about three a week. So it's something, again, it's not every single day, but it's part of their weekly routines.

and then by the time the next box comes they've worked through it and they're ready for the next one.

Rose Hamilton (12:04)
So in essence, you turned compliance, which is always the biggest challenge in supplements, into enjoyment. And that's everything, especially in this space. And one other thing that you mentioned that I'd love to hear you share a little bit more about is the importance of taste. So in supplements space and vitamin space, taste doesn't necessarily play a role unless we're talking about gummies or a different format where there is flavoring into it or stick packs. But in this case,

in the beverage space, taste matters. So how much do you see it impacting someone's choice? And then follow on, how do you get the product into people's hands to experience the taste?

Leslie Danford (12:44)
Yes, and I have never thought about what you said turning compliance to enjoyment, but I just love that because that is the essence of what vitamin Ease is trying to do. We want we don't want to feel like a chore or a burden and we don't want to feel like another obligation. We want it to be enjoyable and actually that links directly to your question because taste is key to that. If something tastes good, you are going to enjoy drinking it.

And if it doesn't, it's going to feel like one more thing you have to do. And I think we all have had that experience where you purchase something and you because you think you should and you're like, I'm going to buy this healthier version of X or I'm going to purchase this like package of powder stuff. And then you look at it there in the cabinet and you're just like,

So taste is so key because if it tastes good, you're gonna look forward to it I actually have many of my customers I sent out a little survey to my best customers Give me the one word you think of with vitamin E's and one word that came up surprised me was treat People think of it like a little treat because it's fruit juice. It tastes like fruit It's got a little natural sugars in it. Nothing added but all from the juice and so They like that. It's like I need a little sweet something. I want a little

⁓ something like a little treat and they'll reach for vitamin E's. So yeah, taste is huge. And I remember we talked about previously, I worked in the beverage industry prior to finding vitamin E's and we used to say taste is king because when you're sipping something, drinking something, it's filling your mouth. It has to taste good. You know, a pill can get away with bad taste because you're just choking it down. But when you're sipping a beverage and drinking something, it has to taste good. So that was a priority for us from the start.

And I think we've achieved that by just building on natural fruit juice. Fruit juice tastes good, we don't have to add sugar, and therefore people enjoy it. So yeah, to your question, getting product into people's hands and allowing them to taste it is huge for us. I've learned over time that our brand name, Vitamins, has people thinking vitamin, which then leads them down this path of it's going to taste like something that's good for me, which means bad.

So it's really important to our brand to have people actually try it because that's not the case. And when they try it, they're pleasantly surprised and they actually see things like it actually tastes good, which I'll take as a compliment. So there's a few ways we do that. We do invest in in-store demos, which are expensive and there's always a lot of debate about the return on those investments, but for vitamin E's, not only does it convert to sales in stores, but it also helps to build awareness about

our brand and what we taste like and the fact that we're good. So in-store demos is really important. The nice thing about having a Shell Stable Shot is you can send this little shot itself out as a sample. So we do a lot of partnerships with, we've worked with Runner Box, for example, which sends out little sample boxes to all the runners in their subscription. We will sponsor events and drop vitamin E's into goodie bags at wellness events where we think it's our target audience. So that we do a lot of that.

And think the other way is actually in store, which is an interesting ⁓ thing that we didn't expect. But on our website, we sell 12 packs. They cost more than a single bottle. And it's a bigger kind of barrier to entry to get someone to pay for 12 bottles when they haven't even tasted it. But when someone can go into a store and buy one shot.

Rose Hamilton (16:06)
That's right.

Leslie Danford (16:09)
It's a very, ⁓ it's an easier decision to make. So they buy the shot, they taste it, they think, wow, this actually tastes good. And then we have QR codes on our bottle that they can follow to our website to learn more. And if they really like it, they'll feel more comfortable buying that 12 pack. So a lot of different ways, but it is a very important part of our marketing strategy.

Rose Hamilton (16:29)
Well, and I love the discussion around the QR code and educating the consumer. And I think that's a natural transition to some very deliberate choices you made. We just talked about how important taste is, experiencing the product is. And DTC is not a place where you're experiencing that. And so it can be a challenge to get the product in someone's hands. You made a very deliberate decision. Retail first and not DTC. Help us understand more.

Leslie Danford (16:57)
Yeah, and that is one that I get questioned on a lot. And so I really have to kind of come back to our lessons, what we see working for us and stick to that, regardless of how other brands build their businesses. But there's a few reasons why we've done that. So when I started Vitamins, the cost of acquisition online to get someone to engage with your product through, for example, paid social media was $6 a click.

So that's not even $6 a purchase. That's just to click on you. And then with the conversion rate, et cetera, it was just prohibitively expensive. So there was an element of timing of just launching during COVID times when those prices were really high. It didn't make financial sense to do that. So that was one factor. I think another factor that's specific to our product is it is a liquid and although it's a shot, so it's a smaller bottle,

These are expensive to ship. so...

Whereas another brand might have an entry level offering like a smaller pack size to get someone to try the product on D2C. For us, even that, shipping a couple bottles at a time, costs more than it would to ship, for example, a stick pack. So D2C economics really only work on the larger pack sizes and also especially if we can get somebody on subscription. So that's the other element of it. And then the third part is what I was talking about with the truck.

And you know, the thing that I've learned is when it comes to products that people consume There's a trust factor there

And so the number of impressions or data points that somebody needs before they're going to buy something they've never heard of and actually put it inside their body is high. You know, I've seen eight to 10 impressions before somebody will purchase or drink of vitamin E's. So trying to do that online is hard. It's expensive as we talked about in a store, you have some built in credibility there because these retailers we're working with, like for example, sprouts, they do a lot of due diligence on us.

before they'll put us on the shelf. Do we have all the certifications? Are our ingredients really clean? Is this trustworthy sourcing? Does it really taste good? Is this actually something that we will stand behind? And so when we get into retail, we're kind of cutting through some of that trust building.

by being available in their stores. And that's worked really well for us. And again, another product, like let's say a swimsuit, you see it one time on Instagram and maybe it's just me, and I think, that's cute, click, I buy it, I'm done. And it's really not as big of a decision as something that you're going to drink yourself or even.

more importantly feed to your kids. Like it has to be really trustworthy. And the retail channels have helped us build that credibility. So it's, this very interesting Ami channel strategy where everyone wins, right? The retailer is making money off those sales of single bottles or smaller pack sizes and offering their shop or something different. We get the trust building and the trial at retail.

And then for those that want that D2C experience delivered straight to their door and they want to kind of go all in on a 12 pack or a subscription or even a 24 pack, they can come to our website. So it's really worked out well and I think it's a win, win, win situation.

Rose Hamilton (20:17)
This is modern CPG. It's retail equals discovery and DTC equals retention. I love how you just walk through how you're thinking about the channels and the differences. And I also think it's fascinating because it would be natural for someone to say, let's just throw it on TikTok. Let's just go and do all these different things. But I think your intentionality and building it slowly, learning from things says a lot.

And I think it also leads me to another important question. What stood out to me when we were talking is that the reality is the vitamins category is pretty flat, but wellness shots are growing very fast, as you shared with us, 35%, even higher than that during COVID. So what does this mean for what consumers are actually telling us?

Leslie Danford (21:07)
Yes, I have been thinking about this for a long time and I actually had the opportunity to hear the CEO of Vitamin Shops speak about this very subject at Expo East at the time, or maybe it was Newtopia now before they changed their name. But the trend that's happening in the market that ⁓ Lee spoke about from the Vitamin Shop perspective, but that I very much believe in and see as well is people are moving from

kind of like a pharma medical pill mentality to wanting more natural solutions and vice versa, they're not just eating food for calories or because they're hungry, they want functionality and value from that food. And so those two forces of kind of moving away from this kind of more...

man-made solution and from just food is food it's developing this whole middle category of functional food and beverage and that's growing so the more people are moving away from pills and vitamins and the more they're moving away from just like

chips, hate to pick out chips, like chips are chips or chips. They're moving to this middle space of like, okay, I know I need food and I know I need calories, but what else is it going to do for me? What is this food going to do for me? And you know, what functionality and benefit is my body going to get from this stuff? And also I want it to be like natural and taste good. I'm not going to just like force myself to take a pill.

So this is huge and it's here to stay. And I think it started before COVID, know, people are starting to read labels and think about what they're putting in their body. They're demanding more, they're raising the bar, they're not accepting kind of junky food. And I think COVID kind of kicked it into high gear with more attention on health and...

you know, just protecting yourself with what you put in your body. And so I don't think this is going anywhere. think that functional food and beverage is growing. think the industry needs to catch up a little bit because there's a big gray area between supplement labels and food and beverage labels. And even retailers and some bigger industry players are still kind of figuring out how to deal with this stuff. It's like, well, do we put it in the vitamin aisle or do we put it in the food section? And I think for me, I try to put myself in the mind of the consumer and the

shopper, where are they going to look for it? What are they thinking about? And where do we want to be when this need arises so that they can find us there? But I do think this is like a massive shift. It's been going on for a long time and it's not going to go back to where it was.

Rose Hamilton (23:44)
Bottom line, consumers don't abandon categories. They abandon bad experiences. This is a case study, really, in that. And I also think about positioning and pricing. So let's go here. Is $5 too expensive?

Leslie Danford (24:02)
You know, this comes up a lot. I get a lot of pushback on the $5 a shot price point. The way that we landed there is in several, several things contributed to that. One is the cost of making good quality shots is expensive. know, not only are we providing the juice, we're not putting preservatives, we're not cutting corners, we're adding on top of that.

the vitamins and the probiotics and the fiber and packaging it all up in this convenient way. And that does cost a lot. And the other factor, which I think is directly related to that is that's what shots cost in the market as well. So when you look at other shots out there, they are typically around the $5 price point. There's a little bit of variability in there and it's a little tough because some shots, especially

Perishable ones. They're on promotion a lot. So they might normally be $4.99, but more than half the time they're know $3.99. So that's that's part of it So that's where we are right now and I think that is the price that will allow us to build a bigger business because it's we're profitable and also we're kind of speaking to that early adopter customer that person that Really values the convenience values the clean label really doesn't like their pills and wants to pay that

price for vitamin E. So we're going to build with that early customer at that higher price point. But over time, I do think it will come down because there are some very obvious scale benefits to making more at a time, you know, whether it's packaging, buying the vitamins, the juice, etc. So as our costs come down, I want to pass that on to the customer because my vision for vitamin E is to make easy

⁓ nutrition available to everyone. Like I don't want any parents or people out there suffering or feeling guilty or wishing they had more and feeling like they can't afford to do better for themselves. So ⁓ I would love for this to be a mass product at a more affordable price point when we can build that scale.

but it's a journey over time. And so we're starting at point A, I think we'll get to a lower price. I don't think we'll ever be priced comparable with a pill because a pill is a pill. mean, it's it's powder pressed into a little nugget. It's just cheap. Like you're never going to be able to have a fresh juice product that competes with that. But I do think we can bring the price down over time and kind of bridge that gap a little bit more.

Rose Hamilton (26:29)
You're not competing with pills, clearly. You're competing with the friction of what's going on in the category right now. And it raises another area topic that I think people would love to hear more about. You've grown slower than most brands. Why is that actually your hidden advantage?

Leslie Danford (26:47)
Great question. So I wish I could say that this was a strategic choice that I made from day one and stuck to it. I think in the early days I was bootstrapping. also, you the first year and half of vitamin E's, I wasn't convinced that this was going to be a full-time job for me, that it could even work. And so I spent a good year and a half of time in kind of a test and learn side hustle mode.

which is funny because looking back on it, the second that I made the commitment to be full-time on vitamin E's, of course it grew exponentially. So there was definitely a chicken and an egg problem going on there, which is just a mindset shift, which I think is a valuable lesson to learn, but it's not something you can just read and learn. You have to kind of experience it. So I think there was a good period of time where that bootstrapping side hustle mentality.

by definition resulted in slower growth. But looking back on it, I do think it was a big advantage because there was a period of time in the last like 18 to 24 months, I'm thinking about like in 2024, early 2025 when fundraising for brands was very, very difficult. And there were a lot of founders that I had met in this journey and looked at their progress, saw them raise a bunch of money, saw them grow quickly.

the time thought maybe I should be doing that but then they weren't able to raise that next round they weren't able to sustain the growth and many of them actually shut their doors and so it was this blessing in disguise for vitamin E's because we were scrappy I was the I'm still the only full-time employee I don't have to pay myself anything right now

I was able to kind of trim back expenses and go into survival mode during some of that time. And then when fundraising opened up again, we were able to take on larger retailers and start our growth up in a more measured fashion. So again, I think it'd be easy for me to say like, yes, this was a decision that I made and stuck with it. It isn't exactly true, but I do look back and see that. I can feel the tension now even of raising too much.

This is balance, right? You want to raise enough so you're not shortchanging and you're shooting for the moon and everything. But if you raise too much, you can put yourself in a position where you're backed against a corner and it could put the company at risk. So that's a balance that we're still trying to strike every day. But for the time being, think that slower growth has served us. The other thing I'll say too, and this is something I learned when I worked in consumer products and it's easier said than done, but brand

building happens slowly. Like anything that's really fast, whether it's throwing a ton of money on TikTok or paying some big influencer to post about you and you get a bunch of impressions and sales, that is not lasting. Like that's not, you get that hit, but ⁓ the repeat and the trust and the credibility is built up over a long period of time. And I knew this from working in consumer products. You can't buy your way in on a short-term basis.

But when you're running your own business and you're trying to make ends meet and you're trying to reach scale, it's really hard because you want that scale and you want it now, you know? Like you want to solve those problems that scale would solve for you. But a lot of that credibility just has to be built up over time slowly. So again, wish I could say this is like all strategic and some of it was, but I think it's kind of unfolded over time and I'm glad that it's unfolded that way.

Rose Hamilton (30:14)
Clearly, fast growth hides problems. Slow growth exposes them. I think that's the lesson to be learned here, really and truly. And tell us a little bit more about knowing that you're the only one that's full time. How do you think about staffing? And how do you bring on resources that fit what you need right where you are in your journey? Tell us a little bit more about outside people you might bring in, board of directors. How are you currently?

resourcing to be able to grow and scale now that you're really going to get more complex with all the different channels that you're in.

Leslie Danford (30:50)
Yes, it's a great question. And I think for folks that don't understand consumer products, startup.

Life or haven't done it or aren't close to it. It can look like a giant mistake to not have a huge team But this is the amazing thing about consumer products that you can Meet the needs with a fraction of someone's time. I don't need a full-time CMO. I can meet those needs with

10 hours a month of a CMO's time. I don't need a COO. I need somebody that can spend maybe five to 10 hours a week on vitamin E's. So that is something that I think is pretty unique to consumer products. I know others that have founded, for example, tech companies.

And when you're building a tech company, you need software development, you need expertise, and it is a full-time job. And you have to kind of invest like two years of full-time development work sometimes to get that product out the door and refine it. And so that requires a big fundraising upfront, get the full-time employees and get it out the door. That's very different from consumer. Consumer really works incrementally and

when you can outsource things even to folks like distributors, it really allows for you to have scale without massive head count. And as I was talking about before, that gives you the flexibility to do things a little bit more scrappy. And I know some consumer founders that have built their business to 10 million plus in sales with one full-time employee plus contractors and outsourcing, know, co-packers, third-party logistics, distributors.

Copackers, it's doable. It's totally doable. And I think in terms of how I think about bringing people on, it's usually me trying to do it myself until I reach a certain level of pain. That's kind how it goes. So even just earlier this year, I finally transitioned from keeping track of my finances on a spreadsheet myself to moving to QuickBooks and bringing on a part-time bookkeeper to help me stay on top of my expense management.

I felt that pain for a good six to 12 months before I took that leap and that work that seems to be working okay. It's like I will do it and then when I reach a point where the business is demanding something different, I can find someone through the network of...

Startups in the CPG world and I have a few networks I'm part of or just people that I've kind of kept in touch with over the years I know they're skill set and I'm just waiting for the right time to bring them on and I can do that You know as needed in terms of the advisory and the board side of things That's been an interesting transition over time. I because I worked in consumer and I know you and I crossed paths from that time I have a lot of folks in my network that understand consumer products beverages

have different expertise. And so I've been able to kind of tap in informally to a lot of those people over time, which is so valuable. You know, a former president of our company.

Asked him if you'd be willing to taste my product and give me feedback. He said sure he gave me some feedback I sent him a second round of samples that is so valuable So I've been able to kind of call in those those favors But I've noticed over time that there may be a need to formalize that a little bit more as we brought on investors I think some of that gets formalized By nature of bringing investors on because when somebody's made an investment in your company, they want to share their expertise They want to be more in touch with you and stay close to the business. So I have some

Value-added investors that are closer to me and giving me more hands-on Involvement now, but I think as we move to the next phase, which is more Institutional investors that have requirements. That's what we'll probably need more of a formal board

a formal advisory group to really make sure that those processes are in place and we have the right expertise, but it's an evolution and You know that to me is startup life It's just like you do what you need to do and as you see things shift You just adjust and shift and adjust and shift and over time you evolve to the next level

Rose Hamilton (34:54)
That is excellent advice. tell me, if someone who's considering starting a business and is waffling and has a family and is trying to decide should they do this or not, what would be your words of wisdom?

Leslie Danford (35:08)
Ooh, that's a tough one. I think my advice would be just take tiny, tiny steps.

You know, even thinking about your idea is a step. You know, when you wake up in the morning or you're falling asleep or maybe you're in the shower or whatever, just thinking about why you think it's a good idea, what the opportunity is, that's a step. You know, and then, you know, taking that next step, maybe it's carving out a little bit of time and really sticking to that. And if it's too hard to carve out a whole day, maybe you carve out, you know, an hour or 30 minutes. So that would be my advice.

and that will start to build on itself. I think the other advice I would have is don't expect it to feel easy and don't expect it to feel good, because it's not going to. And that was hard for me at first. thought, if this doesn't feel easy and this isn't just like launching itself, then maybe it's a bad idea. Or like if people aren't...

kind of telling me this is the most amazing thing they've ever heard of, then it's not gonna work. That's just not how it is. And that's okay, because you can do something and change later. You can trust that your vision makes sense, even if other people don't understand it. And you can learn as you go. So that would be my other piece of advice is like, there's a little bit of grit needed. I saw your mug said grit and I love that. Because there's a little bit of just like, you gotta just push through.

and it's a balance because you don't want to keep pushing something that's not working, but at the same time, you are the engine. So like don't expect it to roll that boulder to roll itself up the hill. Like you got to push it. So that's the other thing. And the other thing I think I would say is don't be afraid to go slow because I've talked to some.

⁓ aspiring entrepreneurs whose life circumstances maybe do not support starting a business right now. You know, like if you need your income from your company or you need health insurance or you're in a personal situation, those things matter. And I think, you know,

People talk about like throw caution to the wind and just do it or whatever But you know, that's not always the case for some people. So that's okay You can go slow you can start on the side. You can think about it. Like I said, you can start to write things down That's how vitamin E started for several years before I actually did it So don't you know, don't don't feel like you have to do everything right away And you know, keep in mind it is it is a it is a big commitment and a big sacrifice But you don't have to take all of that at once

And then the last thing I would say to someone is if you have an idea on your heart or like in your mind, it's there for a reason. I really believe that. Like you have that idea because you are the person to do it.

Someone else down the street is not gonna do it. Big company over here that should do it is not gonna do it. It's on your heart because you are supposed to do it and trust that. Even if it's tiny steps, don't give up on those things. If something is in your mind, that's for you to do.

Rose Hamilton (38:04)
It sounds like clearing space for your intuition to be able to speak to you becomes very important.

Leslie Danford (38:10)
I hadn't thought about that, but I completely agree.

Rose Hamilton (38:13)
And then I'd be remiss if not to ask, a mom starting a business, scaling a business, dealing with investors, all the things. How personally do you manage it all? Do you have routines? How do you think about it?

Leslie Danford (38:27)
yeah, good question. And I do not have this all figured out. So first thing I would say. You know, one thing about running your own business, and I'm sure you know this because you're running your own business, it's a blessing and a curse. You can do whatever you want. You can spend your time however you want. And on the blessing side, that means you can prioritize your kids if you want. You can work in the evenings if you want or not. The weekends, all day, whatever.

On the cur side is, you know, can fritter away your time and not prioritize your business and no one is going to call you out on that. So that is something I try to stay pretty disciplined about in blocking out my time as if I were working a nine to five if I can, because if I don't, it would be very easy for that time to just get eaten up by this or that priority. So I really try to.

carve out work time. But on the other hand, you know, if my kids do have some event during school that I'd like to attend, well then I can take that hour and make up for it another time. But I think resourcing yourself and blocking your time in order to take your business seriously is important. Because I think people, when people ask me this a lot, and I think they're envisioning that I'm like a stay at home mom with four kids and I'm like making home cooked meals while I'm selling

you

know, vitamin A's into sprouts. Like, no, it's a job, you know, like it's a real job. And just because it's a startup and just because it's your own business does not mean that suddenly you can squeeze it in while doing other full time jobs, like being a full time parent, which is a full time job.

So that's just one thing I think is important to understand is you have to treat it seriously if it's going to turn into something serious. And if it is a side hustle and it is a part-time thing, that's okay. That's how we're gonna treat it then. If it's three days a week, if it's two days a week, if it's just an hour a week, okay, that's fine. But just kind of understanding that and planning accordingly, I think is important. And don't fool yourself. It is work and you gotta put in the hours.

Rose Hamilton (40:35)
Well, and what I hear in there too is intentional living. You can do anything, but you can't do everything. I've always lived by those words. And if you don't intentionally time block, plan it out, things will take over on their own. So there's intentionality. That's the real work is thinking about the priorities and having your milestones along the way to make sure you're balancing your time according to what those are.

So I'm a big believer, same as you, that it's like time's just going to go away. You'll fill it. You can fill it with lots of things. But being intentional makes a ton of sense. And even someone who's job searching, it's the same thing. I mean, we are business searching to grow. But when you're job searching, you're kidding yourself if you think you're just going to let the time fritter away. You have to treat it like a full-time job. And it's the same thing with new business development and finding

Leslie Danford (41:24)
Yes.

Rose Hamilton (41:28)
new channels, and you've got new sales, you've got marketing, operations, finance, tech. It could take you anywhere. And so I just applaud you in so many ways for all the activity and the work. mean, Leslie, what you've built, it isn't just scalable. It's human. And I think that's why it works. It's very special. And I cannot wait to see the next chapter of this as you move into the vitamin shop and you move into...

all the other channels that you will scale to. And my last final question for you is, how do you think about specialty and think about mass? And the reason I'm asking is, as you may know, we had the chief brand officer from The Vitamin Shop on in one of our recent podcasts. And we also had the VP of Commerce and Influencer and Content from Walmart.

And they both had very different stories to tell about how you think about mass, how you think about specialty. And you obviously began in sprouts, and now you're advancing twice. Like you're going to take two big steps ahead of being in the vitamin shop and in Walmart. And they couldn't be even more different from each other. So I'd love for you to share with us your thoughts on how do you think about that? Because it's two different spaces.

Leslie Danford (42:42)
Yeah, I'm glad you asked that and I really enjoyed your podcast episodes with Walmart and the Vitamin Shop as a brand founder listening to those insights is really, really interesting. You know, for me, as we talked about earlier, retail is the place of discovery for shoppers. They want to touch your product. They want to find it. They want to see it.

And so I keep that lens in mind always. So when I think about the offerings that we have in these various retailers, it is a discovery format. It's the single shot. Or for Walmart, we have this little four pack. So somebody can kind of try four shots without committing to an entire 12 pack. So that's one thing. The other thing that I tried to put the lens on, instead of thinking about what type of retailer is this, is this retailer specialty

or mass or whatever I try to think about where is the vitamin E's customer like where is this woman who feels stretched thin really values nutrition but doesn't have the time or ability or interest perhaps in like creating all these fresh pressed juices and doing all this menu planning and cooking all the time she's really she's working maybe or she just has a lot of kids or she just like doesn't want to okay so like where's this person and

Where is where is she going to be when she's like looking for that solution and vitamin E's is there for her and that's kind of how we've landed with the retailers that we're working with right now and it's it's really it's interesting because they are different and we're going to learn a lot

through these launches. But perhaps the person who's at vitamin shop, they're in vitamin shop because they care about nutrition. They know that supplementing your diet is important, but they've never really liked pills or they've been buying gummies because they can't swallow pills, but they kind of like not happy with that sugary.

Tooth coating characteristic of it or they don't like handing them out to their kids and they see vitamin E's and they think Yes, this is it. This is what I need. This is this is the solution Or you know the person who's in Walmart trying to make the healthier choices She's not in that center aisle just buying the bag of chips She's in the in the perimeter of the store looking in the supplement area for solutions

and is willing to spend a little bit more to get that right solution. Maybe she's saving in other areas. And I actually think Walmart has done a really nice job growing those discovery channels and building those discovery brands within their broader kind of cost savings model. Just because you want to save money on this doesn't mean you're going to cut corners on that. And so I think...

I think these retailers are all solving the problems in different ways and we're really excited to see kind of where vitamin E fits into that.

Rose Hamilton (45:25)
It's amazing. It's amazing. Well, congratulations on all the success and the wisdom that now comes to life because you've had the courage and the strength to build this business and to go after a real problem for real consumers. And so I think a question our listeners would have is, where can they find you? And we'll make sure that we add that into the show notes.

Leslie Danford (45:45)
Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for giving me the platform to share this story. It's really an honor. I love it. So I think the easiest way to find this is our website, vitaminies.com. We actually just acquired the vitaminies.com domain a few months ago, so I'm super excited about that. But on our website, you can of course buy directly from us, but we also have a store finder that's updated with all the locations where we're sold. So our work with Walmart and Vitamin Shop is a pilot with a smaller number of stores, so it won't be in every location.

our website in our store finder. You can filter for your location and see where we're located. We're at sprouts nationwide. So if you live by a sprouts, you will find us there. And if you're interested in just following along with our content and hearing about what's new, me talking sometimes or sharing expert advice, we're on social media, TikTok, Instagram and Facebook.

at vitamin E's brand. And you can also join our email list through our website where we send email recipes, educational content, heads up about new retailers launching new products on our email list. So that's always a great place to find us as well.

Rose Hamilton (46:50)
Well, I look forward so much, to our next chapter two, because we're going to want to hear how it goes after you get these launches and all the other things that you will now have attracted to you from all the work that you've done here. So I thank you and listeners. I hope everyone will enjoy this episode just as much as I did. Until the next time.