LouLou Lollipop - From Etsy Beginnings to Global Baby Brand

Ramon Vela (00:02.488)
Welcome back everyone. We have a great show for you today. Today I am joined by Angel Ko and Eleanor Lee who are both co-founders and twin sisters of Lulu Lollipop. Welcome to the show.

Angel (00:36.086)
Hi Ramon, thank you so much for having me.

Ramon Vela (00:38.542)
Hi, that name is that I love saying your company name because it's such a fun name to say. I'm sure you guys get that a lot. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun. So I appreciate you making time for me. I know you guys are busy. You got a lot of stuff going on. You're building and growing this great company. But I appreciate you making time for me and my listeners to learn more about the brand and your story.

Angel (00:45.526)
Tongue twister.

Ramon Vela (01:07.15)
and really why you do what you do and why that should be important to consumers out there. So let's get started. And this is my signature question, which I love to ask every founder, every CEO, every executive who's been on this program. I really love to ask this question for two reasons. One is there is a lot of stuff going on in the world where you can feel stressed out, there's a lot of anxiety and stress. And I find that a gratitude practice

really helps. It has helped me through dark moments of my life, my personal as well as business. And I like to promote that and gratitude is such a great way to relieve stress, to help manage your nervous system and really put things in perspective. And whether you meditate, which I have a gratitude meditation practice, but you could also journal or pray or whatever feels good for you. Gratitude is that thing that's

very powerful, but it's also free and it's available to you at any time. So I highly recommend it. the other reason why I ask a question around gratitude in this particular case is I really feel that people can look, it's easy for consumers to look at a product on a shelf or on the retail shelf or online and simply think like, it's just some faceless corporation. They don't realize

they don't know about the people behind it. And so part of what I like to do is not only just have the founders or executives of a company on the show, but I really want people to connect with you because I want them to know that there's real people who care deeply about their products, about their consumers, about their communities.

and really kind of get to know the person behind the brand so that they realize there's not just you and I'm sure there's a whole team of people who care and who bleed sweat and tear and work really hard to make sure that the consumer has a great experience with the product as well as everything else. So that's the other reason why I asked this question. So with all of that in mind, if you don't mind Angel and Eleanor.

Ramon Vela (03:12.184)
Can you share a moment or a memory when someone did something for you that just made you feel grateful because it meant that they believed in you, your vision or your potential? And either one of you can take it, take that question. Well, both of you, you know, but whoever wants to go first.

Eleanor (03:26.594)
Thank you.

Angel (03:27.038)
Go Sister One, Eleanor.

Ramon Vela (03:28.707)
Yeah.

Eleanor (03:30.808)
Great. Thank you, Ramon. First of all, really thank you for having me on the show. I'm very grateful and honored to be here. So for me, I think I will never forget our very, very first trade show experience at Las Vegas Convention Center. So we're like first starting out. It was 2016, I believe. Yeah. October, actually around this time, the Facebook just reminded me.

So that was our very first, we were surrounded by hundreds of established brands, very well-known industry leaders. And then our booth was really tiny. We only had a few swathes, I think only three prints at that time. Yeah, and then we have no budget, no idea where we even belong there. We went to IKEA and got furnitures,

Ramon Vela (04:30.701)
you

Eleanor (04:30.714)
That's how we do. then, so without any expectation or anticipation, because that's really our very first, no connection in the industry. So the second day, I remember vividly, both Angel and I have been talking about it, even these days, that a person,

from a really reputable brand from our industry. It's more like actually our competitors, if you consider that. They came up to our booth and then just told us, I've what? I don't exactly remember the entire sentence, but it's something like I walked the entire show and then look at all the products, the swaddles and everything. You guys, the prints really caught my eye and have the best.

Ramon Vela (04:58.999)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Eleanor (05:23.32)
At that moment, it's a very simple comment, but for us, it's everything. We are so new. We are new kid on the block. We don't know anything. And then he didn't have to say it, honestly, but he did. So I think this small act of kindness really gives us the validation. We didn't even know where we were craving. It's a proof that we are doing something right. We are going in right direction.

So that's something really profound and had a very impactful lasting impression on us. Yeah, guess we even today we're talking about it and that really sets, makes a difference.

Ramon Vela (06:05.837)
Wow, I love that example. And I'm going have a comment for that. let's go with Angel now, your, your gratitude story.

Angel (06:13.056)
Yeah, so I would go back a little bit earlier to actually when we first started walking the streets. So a lot of people may have already known we started as a handmade shop on Etsy. So Eleanor and I started making all of the necklaces, teething necklaces ourselves, we sourced the beads, we were the customer service, we were the marketing people. And then that time we're thinking, how do we share our products with other people?

Eleanor (06:42.84)
Mm-hmm.

Angel (06:43.038)
And it's just an idea. like, okay, we've got to go talk to the shops that are willing to carry out products. So we have a few products with us. And we were literally like those traditional salesmen. We're walking stores to stores. And I remember there was one store, an eternity store on Main Street. It's where we live in Vancouver. We went to her store. The owner's name is Susan Hayes and her store is called Hazel and Jewels. She's the very first person.

that believed in us. She gave us our very first wholesale order. So she was so encouraging. She didn't just shut us off right away. She's just like, wow, this is really intriguing, willing to give us a chance to try. And even though the order was really small, just few necklaces. But it's just the fact that she's willing to give us a chance to do that.

And she's been in business now for 40 years. The store is still around. And she's fairly well known in the community. So just having somebody that is validating your idea and being really kind and supportive, and that has a really lasting impact. Because Eleanor and I, I feel like we are pretty resilient. We don't get a tick down that easily.

Ramon Vela (07:43.423)
Mm-hmm.

Angel (08:05.024)
But at the same time, when you have somebody, you're going the first time walking the street and that person immediately just gave you that confidence boost. It just set us up in such a way that we just feel so grateful and just so, yeah, it just encouraging. Yeah, yeah.

Ramon Vela (08:23.693)
Yeah. These are two great examples and they speak to the core of the question, which is someone believe in you, your vision or your potential, and you feel grateful for it. And I love to start these interviews like this because I think it's great to be able to just to pause for a second and think about your journey.

and think about those moments because everything happens so fast and there's a million things that you need to do every day. And sometimes you wear different hats and you have to do different things around the company. And that's really the kind of the life that entrepreneur leads, that there's always something to do. There's never like, okay, I finished my work for the day and then we're done. There's always something going on, right?

And so I think it's great to pause and think about those moments because those are the moments I feel like really energize you. Both of you kind of mentioned that in that these are what I would refer to him as almost like a transfer of belief, right? Where someone says, hey, I like what you're doing. I see this stuff that you're creating and I think it's good. And both of them, both examples are really from credible people. So the other person's competitor or competitor like.

they're complimenting your stuff, which is pretty cool because you assume they kind of know what they're doing and they already are in the marketplace. And then you've got someone on the other side of it, which is she knows what consumers like and she knows the things that people want to buy in her store. So she validates what you have and say, hey, this is a good product. This has a lot of potential here. Let me try it out.

And both of those, I think, are just a great transfer of belief and it's like an energy that you get, you know, that helps you kind of keep going. So I love both of those examples. Thanks for sharing that. So let's I want to know the the a little bit of the beginning story. And I know it has to do with one of you. don't remember which one because I did read it. I want to know that. But let's first start off maybe.

Ramon Vela (10:38.591)
maybe with an overview of what you believe those people saw. What was it about the concept? What was it about the idea? And what was it about the product that people like? And or if you want to think of it this way is kind of give us your, what was your basic pitch to these people? What were you telling people at that booth and that trade show?

And what did you tell her, the woman whose store you stopped into, what was that pitch like? What did they see that made them feel like, wow, I want to take a chance on this or I like this?

Ramon Vela (11:31.307)
Either one of you.

Angel (11:37.201)
That's a great question.

Ramon Vela (11:40.27)
Well, let me help you out. you know, was there something unique about the product that they saw and thought, okay, I haven't seen this before, or I like this, or this really has, this really is coming from a perspective of someone who really knows the market, right? Or knows, you know, because sometimes products are made by people who like, baby products are made by people who don't have babies or don't know anything.

about that market other than it might be a product opportunity. You guys had some experience in that. So was it from that perspective? Like, tell us, share with us what you think that they saw. I know I'm putting you on the spot because I'm asking you to think from their perspective, but what do you think?

Angel (12:22.71)
you

Eleanor (12:30.494)
Thank you. Yeah, I'll start. I think what they see us is actually

Eleanor (12:42.966)
Sorry, I have to rephrase. Pause.

Ramon Vela (12:56.917)
You guys want to start off with a different question?

Angel (12:57.462)
I was just thinking that these people, they honestly, I think they saw something in us that we probably didn't see ourselves. I think that's why we're so grateful. Like with the necklace, the teething necklace, we started as wanting to provide the moms with a safe solution for the babies to teeth on. And it was...

Eleanor (12:58.166)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (13:14.914)
Hmm.

Angel (13:26.96)
great idea at that time in the market. There wasn't really anything like that in our local market and we just felt that it's a product that we can resonate, like other moms can resonate with. And they, so it's the energy. We were so passionate about what we are designing and what we are creating.

And we are sharing this joy and also sharing this product doesn't feel like it's amazing. It's going to help. It's going to be a solution for the moms that's looking to wear a necklace is. But, you know, the stuff on the market, a lot of them had nickel and things like that. It might not be safe for the baby. And maybe when they were teething, they would tuck and pull. So this item, the necklace, it's not only beautiful, but it's also safe. So they don't

So basically letting the mom have a peace of mind when they're wearing something like this, they don't have to worry about it. Yeah.

Ramon Vela (14:30.893)
And, and so correct me if I'm wrong. So one of you was, had a child, right? And, had issues with the baby teething and I guess pulling on stuff. And that's kind of how the, that was sort of the emphasis of the idea, correct? So in some ways, I guess it was inspired by your own challenges or, know, your own problems and that you were trying to solve for that.

And I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like based on what I've read that there really wasn't, and what you just said too, there really wasn't anything like that in the marketplace. And so I'm wondering, I think that might've been something novel or a novel way of looking at it that maybe people saw as well. Like this woman who you approached at the store, she might've thought like, hey, this is kind of an interesting idea. I haven't really seen this before.

Maybe that was one of the reasons why she took that opportunity. So I don't know, think you guys tapped, it sounds like you guys tapped into a particular product niche or solution that really wasn't available in the marketplace at that time.

Ramon Vela (15:47.499)
Is that correct?

Eleanor (15:51.037)
Yes, actually, yeah, Angel alluded, it was nothing like that in the Canadian market at the time. It was purely from a personal experience, like more like a frustration as a new mom.

couldn't find any solution on the market that would first and foremost is safety. That's something safe that the baby can chew on that we had this idea of a jewelry, a safe jewelry that mom can still wear and feel great about because as a mom, we all know that the early days there's just so much going on and you yourself like ourselves is actually the last thing we think about on our mind. It's always about how to take care of the kids.

and we always put the kids first. And then, but with this piece of jewelry, even though it's a teething jewelry, it's like the ultimate user is the baby. However, the mom can still feel great about herself. And then really, I feel like it's more like something that you can hold on to that you can take on the day, something like that, yeah.

Ramon Vela (16:59.789)
And so, correct me if I'm wrong, we'll get into the product a little later, but this jewelry that you're talking about, this is meant for the mother to wear, correct?

So this is actually, I think it's a great idea. Like, I don't know if there's more stuff out there now, given that there's always people trying to copy, but my kids were babies in the early 2000s. So I remember what it was like, and I don't remember ever seeing anything like that. As a matter of fact, I don't even remember thinking about that. But when you guys started talking about,

this experience, I started remembering like, I do remember like, if, you know, my wife was holding the baby and the baby would just like, you know, tug on whatever she was wearing or anything like that and start playing with it. We didn't even think about all that. We didn't even think that, hey, you know, we should have something safe or we should have, you know, something we like, you know, there wasn't, at least I didn't remember anything like that being on the market. So for me, like this is, this was a novel idea that you guys came up with and

It's pretty cool. I mean, this is, I you must have heard this over and over again in the beginning, right? And this is how you started growing the business in this particular arena.

And from here, walk us through what was it like growing this business? So you have this first idea. What were the next steps? What was that year like? Was it building the business based on this particular product or did you start building upon more products or did you start expanding?

Eleanor (18:46.646)
Yeah, I think in the early days, we actually still like doing a lot of local pop up markets, the holiday markets. And that's how we started slowly growing like our network and also reaching out to more customers. It's more like an opportunity for us to understand what other people are looking for, what moms are looking for so that we can get more insights. And I feel great to connect with the community and be able to talk to other

parents or moms or caregivers. And then we have a stores on Etsy so we are also servicing slowly growing our audience and I think the big

moment is like when we started promoting and collaborating with other brands on Instagram. was like, keep in mind that's like 10 years ago when we first started. So we're growing our brand on Instagram, social media was huge. And especially on Instagram. So everyone's like, going to Instagram to check out like new brands, new products, and then collaborate. And that's how we start like slowly growing our brand awareness.

and then in Japan. Yeah.

Angel (20:04.02)
Yeah, so going back, I wanted to add a bit more about the pop-ups too. I really enjoy those times where Eleanor and I would get up early, go set up the tables and just like looking at how the product is displayed and stuff and then also connecting with the people talking to them. It gives us a lot of energy like we love and it's also part of the reason why we actually really love trade shows as well that we can

to people face to face because if you think about it like over COVID, there was a period where, you know, we're just looking at most of time looking at the screens. And that human connection is so crucial that that we'll be able to touch and connect with people. Yeah, and then in terms of the product offerings, we definitely are, we've always been a bit of creatives, like, like in heart, so to say.

Ramon Vela (20:39.476)
Yeah.

Angel (21:00.456)
We love everything that is like prints and colorful and things like that. And so we were always thinking, OK, what are some of the other products that we can do and offer that is complementary to what we're doing, like the silicone teething necklace? So our next product was actually a teether. So it was a teether and the teethers, one of our very first design, own design teether was a donut teether with sprinkles.

Ramon Vela (21:30.422)
Thank

Angel (21:31.703)
That's because we were, Morning Ritual was actually getting a big cup of the largest cup you can get from Tim Hortons, extra large coffee and a donut each. So we start our day, Eleanor and I, start our day doing that. And then once we finish that, we get to work and then start making all the orders and processing. And that was, yeah, our donut TV where it came to be.

Ramon Vela (21:47.116)
Thank

Angel (22:01.047)
and it was I almost think it was an instant hit although I think it was actually it took us a lot more effort than the instant hit because now it's like 10 years ago 9 years ago but we were really grateful that one of the bloggers right like I think it was thriftylittles that she somehow she picked us she saw us on Instagram and reached out

And she was really, she really liked our our product at the time. And she was just like, I want to promote you. And she was very influential in the mom community, like really, really influential. And and then from that point onwards, it just our business been like steadily growing.

Ramon Vela (22:34.145)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (22:50.216)
Mm-hmm. And by the way, I forgot to ask you guys this. Did either of you have entrepreneurial experience? Did either of you run a business before?

Angel (23:02.25)
We dabble. Yeah.

Eleanor (23:03.896)
Yeah, I had it for a very brief period, like a time of two years, I think. It's more like also my side hustle. had a health food store.

Ramon Vela (23:03.916)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (23:18.548)
Oh, okay. Well, I mean, the reason why I ask is, you know, every business is a little bit different, but, know, it's always helpful to have a little bit little business experience, even though, you know, the health food store and then selling on Etsy, I'm sure are very different, you know, like in terms of like how you do it, just like, you know, I was just talking to someone earlier and their business was mostly directed to consumer. And now they're just getting into retail.

And it's a different animal. it's, you know, like dealing with retailers is much different than selling directly to your consumers. Just like, I'm sure all of that is different than selling at, you know, pop-ups and, places like that. Um, but you know, I always love to find out a little bit of the background of folks. Um, so at what point. And I'm sure there's many milestones, but.

When was the first time where you felt like, wow, this could be a major business, this could be a big business? Was there any point where you felt like, wow, I don't know, maybe getting into a retailer or maybe selling a lot of units, was there any milestone where you kind of felt like it moved from the pop-up Etsy and the pop-up to like, wow, this is a

This is a potentially big business.

Eleanor (24:51.46)
you can share first. Yeah, most likely. Yeah.

Ramon Vela (24:53.397)
Ha ha ha.

Angel (24:53.93)
Maybe it's the same, maybe we're thinking the same thing, because we're twins, right? So maybe we'll see. I think that it was a moment when we received an email. Tell me if that's what you're thinking. We received an email from the buyer from Nordstrom. It's a Nordstrom buyer. It was through an online forum. And as you know, if it's through an online forum, sometimes we might think it's fraud.

Ramon Vela (24:58.038)
Yeah.

Angel (25:22.944)
So we weren't taking it seriously. We were like, is this for real? Is this like really like, or they just trying to scam us, right? Cause they wanted to order and stuff. were like, it's just really unbelievable. A buyer would reach out, like a buyer from Nordstrom would reach out. And then we did our, we looked her up and everything. It's real. And the domain and everything is like, it's real. And then we were like, this is real.

Ramon Vela (25:30.86)
Thank

Angel (25:53.047)
Yeah, think that was just really, it was very out of the blue. Like it's just really unexpected. I think that's why I just don't remember that.

Ramon Vela (26:06.7)
Wow. And so that was like your first major retailer.

Eleanor (26:19.052)
Yeah, that was the first very first US major retailers. also remember pretty much I think shortly after we had a trade show in New York, the Jarvis Convention Center for the New York now and actually the buyer, she came by our booth to meet us and to really and that moment to really solidify and she picked her selection and tell us like, okay, you guys will get in touch and we'll have to your account set up and everything.

And at that moment we were like, wow, this is real. It's like not like not a market place or like things like a small business, but it's a nostril and national retailers are going to carry out teethings.

Ramon Vela (26:52.904)
you

Ramon Vela (27:05.594)
wow. I love that. You guys mentioned social media and I am curious because you're doing pop-ups, you're doing Etsy and obviously social media is probably more important now than it even back then. But back then it was very helpful to you. Did you guys do this internally, start off with the social media internally or was it really about like being online and then

it getting picked up by some of these very influential people like those influencers.

Angel (27:38.89)
Yeah, for what, more than five years, right? least five years. Five years, Mm-hmm.

Eleanor (27:39.907)
Yeah, in the very first day, yeah, I think for five years we are doing everything ourselves. Well, not everything, but at least like the social media, the customer service, also like the ticking orders, shipping orders, making everything at the very first few years. So I think definitely social media, I mean, play an important role in the growth of our business.

Angel (27:50.592)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (28:07.776)
Mm-hmm.

Angel (28:07.848)
And it was all organic. So we were taking our own pictures with our phone and we were posting. We're reaching out to the mom communities on Instagram and reaching out to the influencers. We didn't really do any sort of like pay marketing until actually COVID happened because that kind of forced us to pivot. We were quite successful with

just word of marketing and also the retailers that were carrying offices and then COVID happened that we had to. So that's really, so about five years ago that we really started doing a lot more digital marketing.

Ramon Vela (28:48.716)
And I am curious, you were in an area that I kind of feel is a really interesting market because it's one of those places where it's not only a product, but there's also a lot of emotion involved between a mother and a child and a parent and a child. It's really important to them to get the right product or to have a good product.

in that community of mothers, because I remember when we had kids, we usually were also surrounded by other couples who have kids. And so when someone found something that really worked or we saw something like, look at, look at that. looks really great. It spreads like wildfire. Like, you know, people share like what works, what doesn't work, what are great products, what are not, you know, so forth. And so it's a very, it's an emotional type of product purchase in some ways. And it's also a

a community that is not just about product, but it's very special, right? Because it's between a parent and a child and a mom or a child. And so I'm wondering, did you guys make any effort to create a community around that? Like, you know, around like, let's say Facebook or Instagram or whatever. And

And or did a community sort of organically start growing it? Like, is there, like if I looked online right now, is there sort of like a Lululu lollipop community of moms out there?

Eleanor (30:25.688)
that certainly definitely I think for our business and actually for our industry is so important to have a network of like a community of moms and not just moms like women entrepreneur and we are all like supporting each other and like you said for our products that emotional piece is so important because we are moms we we understand each other we understand our struggles and then so to have that group

of us together. It's really, I mean, that's what we believe in.

Ramon Vela (31:05.718)
Mm-hmm.

Angel (31:07.03)
We had a group of mom ambassadors. At that time, they were really supportive. the beginning, they would post pictures of their kids wearing our products, and they would be sharing with their group. And I think that's how, in the beginning, we grew organically on Instagram because of all these moms that, and we are still in touch with them. We are...

Ramon Vela (31:30.294)
Mm-hmm.

Angel (31:34.207)
We actually have some of them are our friends on Facebook as well personally. So we're just really grateful for these moms in the beginning that that really took a chance on us to believe in what we were doing and then just help promote us and have the report. It's, I'm sure Ramon, you probably know as well, sometimes being an entrepreneur can be very lonely.

Ramon Vela (31:57.962)
Mm-hmm.

Angel (31:58.859)
But thankfully, mean, Ellen and I, there are two of us, right? Compared to some of the solo entrepreneur, that's even more. So we can talk and we understand, but it's just so crucial to have that community that is knowing that they believe in you, they're supporting you. And it's not only the mom, but also the moms in business, like Eleanor mentioned, and the other women in business as well, because we all understand our struggles. When we go home, like,

today and we put on a different hat and put on a mom hat. We put on a semi-doctor hat or something. kids will come and say, I have this, I have this, mommy help me. It's just so many hats that we have to put on and it's so important to have that community so you don't feel like you're walking this journey alone. And even just being able to talk to people. Really, really. Yeah.

Ramon Vela (32:38.774)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (32:51.584)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (32:57.036)
Yeah, I love that. And I think that's probably part of your secret sauce of success because I think people relate to you for your guys experience and can relate to your journey and can relate to you as a person, you know, who is going through the things that they may be going through as a parent, as a mom, as, you know, maybe also a breadwinner, like, you know, you know, people.

maybe they're an entrepreneur, maybe they're just, you they have to work, but they can feel like they're not alone in their journey because they have other moms and other people they can talk to. And something I think, Eleanor, you first said it, which I thought was interesting is that, you know, people who, other moms who are entrepreneurs or maybe want to be entrepreneurs, like something like this is really important. for a couple, like I see this for a couple of reasons.

One is there's obviously new opportunities now because of TikTok and Instagram and all these other places where someone could be sort of like a micro influencer. Maybe they don't have 50,000 followers or a million followers, but they might have a thousand or 5,000 people who they've built up trust with and, you know, sharing things online, whether it's your product or others, it could be a source of income from them.

they could, you know, it's something that they believe in. Like this influencer that you mentioned earlier, obviously she saw something in your product that she really liked. I'm not sure, it sounds like she was a mom too, but there was, you know, people I think crave and want to find products that they believe in. And, or,

want to do this, but they don't always, there's not a lot of products out there that they can feel very comfortable with promoting, especially for kids, right? They don't feel comfortable, but when they find a product like yours that they can believe in and want to promote, I think people crave that, like people want that. Even if they're not getting paid anything, it's going back to that circle of other parents. Like when you have a baby, all of a sudden, like maybe, I think this is because maybe age group or whatever it is,

Ramon Vela (35:20.32)
but, maybe cause you go to mommy and me or those, you know, like those, those groups, you're surrounded by other parents. And then all of a sudden you're talking about what's this, what's, how do you do this? And what's best for this and what good product is that? so forth. people look for products, I think, that they want to share. Like they feel like they want to, advocate for. And I think that's what they see in you guys. I think that's not only because of your story, but also because of your products. I think that might be some of your secret sauce there.

Angel (35:51.104)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (35:51.98)
That's more of a comment than a question.

Eleanor (35:52.355)
Thank you. That might be something we don't know. Yeah, yeah, because it's very often we are like still in the very much like day to day and then it's easy that we can be not drowned but like can be working on so many things we forgot and then these little actually this little moments and this little things that's what makes who we are.

Ramon Vela (36:17.063)
So I do want to get into the products and we'll get into that in a second. I have a couple more questions. Before I do that, let me make sure people know that if you want to take a look at what we're talking about and what we will be talking about, you can go to lululollipop.com. lululollipop.com. I don't know if that's three words or two words, but it's Lululollipop.com.

Lou and that's L-O-U-L-O-U and then the word lollipop.com is the website. lulullollipop.com is the website. Go take a look at that. And by the way, everyone, this episode, more than likely, you'll be, if you listen to this, it'll be definitely before Black Friday, Cyber Monday, Summer Weekend, all that kind of stuff. So definitely go to the website after you listen to this or during you're listening to this.

sign up for the newsletter that way you keep up to date on what there's, excuse me, pause, and pause. So you can keep up to date with their promotions and new products and things like that, especially over the holiday season, which I'm sure they'll carry some good deals. So go check that out. Again, that's lululollipop.com is the website that you want to take a look at. So let me ask you a couple more questions, then we'll start getting into some of the product side of it.

so, recently I was reading when I was catching up on news about the organization. I am curious from an entrepreneur, I'm curious from an entrepreneur perspective. you just, have a new CEO. So I think he was already an executive at the company and he's now CEO. I'm wondering from your perspective as co-founders, you know, I'm always really interested, you know, there is a difference between the founders. That's it's like a different energy, a different.

mindset and then as you start growing the company, it becomes a different animal, right? Like now it's like it's more about scalability, it's more about, you know, operations. Whereas when you're a founder, you're like all over the place, you're wearing different hats, you're putting, you know, shipping hat on and then you're putting customer service hat on and social media hat on and everything else. And so I am always curious, when did you guys or how did you guys decide that

Ramon Vela (38:41.664)
you you wanted to bring on a CEO or have someone kind of take charge of that person, of those things. You know, some founders want to try to be the CEO and some are successful. Some realize that, you know, I don't really want to be a I know a lot of founders are telling me, I don't want to be a CEO because I like the building. I like to be in the trenches and I don't, you know, I don't like yet more structure approach. So they, you know, they decide they don't want to be the CEO.

Some like I had Tanya Bowler who was from Alvie and she also, you know, she gave up being CEO because she's just like, for her it was personal reasons. Like she didn't want to have that role for personal reasons. She wanted to step back a little bit. Everyone has all their different reasons. How did you guys decide as co-founders that you wanted to bring in someone else to be the CEO?

Angel (39:40.663)
yeah. For me, it's knowing my own limitation. So I think you asked us earlier whether we have the entrepreneurial experience or like, maybe we had a little bit but we never had the education. Like we didn't study business, we tried something ourselves, we had like other pop ups before we started this business. But we just felt that we're at the

the ceiling of growing and scaling the business. And we wanted to give this business a little bit of a chance to get even bigger and knowing that we will need to have somebody who is experienced in scaling a business, putting some structure in place and having a really a very well defined process in place. ensuring that the business itself is a well oiled machine. Right now we're still in that process right now.

And I think that was the main reason, like for me personally, probably, yeah, same.

Eleanor (40:46.167)
Yeah.

Yeah, think it's yeah, it's the same because we have to align right for the business because we are both co-founders. I mean, and also sisters. So in that sense, like having a CEO more like external person bringing into the business is a really important decision. Just like Angel mentioned, we feel like that is more like a personal realization and understanding our own limitation and then what we can do. We are I would say we are more like a creative

We like to create we like to get our hands dirty in the trenches, but I'm personally definitely not operator I'm not good at things. I can be really messy, which I like

Ramon Vela (41:27.989)
you

Eleanor (41:29.728)
Yeah, so, and then, but for a business to be successful and to be actually scalable, we need to have processes in place and then really structured and then to bring in somebody outside with experience and also actually passionate about our business. He's a Canadian. He has grown like that in, in one, like a very

Angel (41:31.008)
for this.

Ramon Vela (41:39.061)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (41:47.019)
Mm-hmm.

Eleanor (41:54.391)
in the Egon business for many, many years, like in decades. He loves our brand. And then he told us that the moment he actually see our products in person, feel the product in person, he can see how much detail that we put into. So that's why actually I tried to him to be like working with us and working in the business. I think that's also a very like we are so grateful and validation of what we are doing right. So yeah, then that's why we

want to, we definitely are like ambitious. We have big plans and we want to grow the business to be more like global brand that parents can trust that caregivers, anyone that knowing that the products they don't have to like second guess because we already take the guesswork out.

So we provide the really good and trustable and sustainable products where they can already be able to share with their baby, use on their baby and also share with other parents.

Ramon Vela (42:44.715)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (42:59.486)
And yeah, and there's a really great article I saw, think it's for the PR Newswire about him and about your choice. And it sounds like you made a great choice and it sounds like he has great experience. There's also, you mentioned I think earlier before we got on recording, but you mentioned you guys were on a different podcast and it was more about exporting, which by the way is a really good interview. So I recommend anyone wanting to know more about the export side of it and the global.

reach and expansion plans. I think it's a great interview. I'm not above or below highlighting a good interview, even if it's another podcast. But it's a really good one. The only question though I wanted to bring from that perspective over to this interview was a run on tariffs, right? Because tariffs is this, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on in tariffs, you know, especially our country, United States with Canada.

How are you guys dealing with that kind of stuff? there any, maybe they're not a simple solution, but in general, how are you dealing with that?

Angel (44:06.294)
We're dealing with it.

Ramon Vela (44:07.763)
That's a great answer actually.

Eleanor (44:10.392)
Yeah.

Angel (44:11.414)
up.

Angel (44:16.598)
There's something new every day that currently I feel like we are in the putting out the fire mode. Like we are more reactive than responsive. But we definitely have a plan to mitigate some of the terror thing whereby diversifying our sourcing and also diversifying our markets.

Eleanor (44:16.664)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (44:20.512)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (44:28.224)
Mm-hmm.

Angel (44:43.99)
because we feel like baby products and especially like what we're designing is very, it's very, I guess it's very global. It's I don't want to say it's in a global in a way that we get our products really resonate with moms everywhere, babies everywhere. They, we're all same, the human race, we understand the mom challenges, we understand the baby challenges and all of those, because we've been through it. And so

it's our product is there to to provide a solution for some of the the things that they some of the challenges the moms are struggling with. So like the sleep products that we have the sleep bags. We won an award recently from by the Good Housekeeping. And then one of them, the reviewer was saying that it was one of the best sleepers as sleep bags that they have ever used.

and same with the tableware, the silicone tableware we have. And those tableware, we use one of the highest grade of silicone materials called the platinum silicone. And they are European German standards certified. And that's one of the most strict, extrinsic standards in the world for this type of stuff, because we really care about the safety. And we really wanted to merge the

the function of the product and also the aesthetic of the product together. So you're not just, you're not sacrificing a function for aesthetics.

Ramon Vela (46:18.411)
I love that. Did you want to add anything to that, Eleanor, before we move on?

Eleanor (46:23.89)
Yeah, on the tariff topic, think it's more like the challenge is actually the uncertainty, just like Joe mentioned. Well, we all know that it's like changing pretty much every day. We don't know what's coming our way. I remember in the beginning, it was like, we'll wait out and see. However, now it's like months gone by. We can't wait. There's no waiting. We just have to pivot. And then that's why we are expanding globally. then part of the reasons too, because of these

Because in the well in the not in the past but like even in last year I think it's around 55 % of business is in the US and then we can definitely see the impact of the tariff Hurting the business so we have to pivot but we are us is still an important market for us. So we are working to just mitigate some of these the tariff issue and then we'll keep on

Ramon Vela (47:02.731)
Mm-hmm.

Eleanor (47:23.892)
expanding into the market.

Ramon Vela (47:25.611)
Well, thank you for that. And I do agree in the sense that how global your products are. And even if you were to localize a little bit by region, I still think that the products are just so universal that, you know, there's a, I think there's a lot of opportunity. mean, parents have the same challenge with their kids as here, United States, as they do in Canada, as they do in...

you know, Europe or some other, you know, Asia pack or whatever. There's always these, these challenges with the, with their babies. so I, I can see like a lot of expansion opportunities for you guys. and, let's get into some of the products now. and why, you know, if someone's listening to this and loves this idea that, know, that here are these, two people who were moms and creating this product and really can create products based on.

their experience and then kick expanding it. So you guys have this great story starting on Etsy, starting on pop-ups and then really expanding into new and different product basis areas all while helping and supporting moms and parents out there. I love that and I think a lot of people will love that storyline as well. A couple of things before we get into products that I just want to mention is

There is, in this particular arena, like we talked about before, I think it's a really special marketplace because it's not just about a product. It's about a product for a consumer, for an ultimate consumer that is this little bundle of joy that you love so much that you will do anything for. the products have to be something that really meet a certain standard and really have a really special. And I think that's why

you you guys stand out more than other places do because you guys have put so much thought and love and care and work behind creating some of these great products. Before you go into that, I just want to mention, so just everyone out there, for me, like having that type of product means that you have continually build trust. And one of the ways that they build trust is a B certification corporation. We don't have to go through it all, go through it, but for those of you who don't know what that is,

Ramon Vela (49:49.982)
Basically, it's something that people don't actually have to get. Like it's not mandated or anything like that, but companies get it because the B certification means that you plan on running your company a certain way by being good to your employees, choosing the right vendors, making sure they're working correctly and using safe and good labor practices and all sorts of other things.

They are also thinking about the environment and sustainable and so forth. that certification is difficult to get and it's something companies don't have to get. But when they do get it, to me, it's a big flag that says, I care. And I care so much that I will go in the extra effort and pay extra money to get the certification. So I just want to highlight that. Of course, you guys are women-owned. You guys are standard 100. You guys have other creditations and certifications.

but I just wanted to make sure the audience knew that and how important that is. with all that said, tell us if someone is interested in starting their journey with the brand, where do you want them to start? Is there any particular products or product areas that you want to highlight?

Eleanor (51:04.556)
Yeah, actually, there's something unique about products like we become not established, but we have these more like ages and stages in even in our like wholesale catalog and our website too. So we have these products that's suitable for different growth stages and milestone. And I would say like our product is very like diverse, we can meet the need starting from newborn and

the way to like five years old. So I think the very first point of touch is definitely our sleep bag is so essential because baby sleep is important. It's not only important for the baby but also important for the moms. Yeah because we know how important it to have a good sleep.

Ramon Vela (51:46.763)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (51:51.595)
the

Ramon Vela (51:57.312)
Yeah, I definitely agree. And just so everyone out there, I'm on the website, lululollipop.com is the website. lululollipop.com is the website. I love saying that name. It's such a fun name to say. And on there, you can find new and featured sleep and bedding. You've got clothing, you've got feeding, you've got bathing, you've got toys in play, you've got bundles and gifts, you've got sale items, you've got obviously the about page.

And just like you mentioned, when I'm in the sleep and bedding area, there is shop by print, there's shop by category. And then of course, like you mentioned, there's shop by age or gender. So you've got it all broken down from zero to six months, six to 12 months, 12 to 24 months, et cetera. And so it's really neat and organized for you if you want to, depending on how old your child is, you can take a look at

at the different age groups and see what's available. And then you've got a lot of great pictures there with prints and with products and everything else. Is there anything, the sleep one is obviously you've just won that award, so it's great to highlight. Is there any other places that you highlight? Like for instance, is there any products that you guys favor over the other? I know this is your baby, so everything is great. But is there anything that you guys...

Angel (53:18.998)
It's like asking a f**k a favor between the kids.

Ramon Vela (53:27.305)
Is there anything you guys love?

Eleanor (53:32.801)
You want to go ahead or yeah, I can share. I definitely, I still love our teeters because that's what we started with is more like, and it's also very fun because picturing a baby teething and then crying and yelling and then going through so much pain, but.

when you have a teether, that's the, it's more like you're making something more like ugly and painful into something really, I mean, fun, giving a baby a teether, a donut teether. you imagine picturing that and this does that kind of memory will just keep like imprint on your mind. And when you think about like 20 years later, Oh, look at that baby is like eating a donut or chewing on a donut. Um, yeah, I think it's that moment, like these joy and

Ramon Vela (54:03.029)
Mm-hmm.

Thank

Eleanor (54:24.292)
delightful moments that we create without products, it makes a difference. Yeah. That's from me.

Ramon Vela (54:31.381)
Well, and there's lot of different categories. Angel?

Eleanor (54:34.573)
Yeah.

Angel (54:36.68)
Aside from sleep, the sleep bags of course is one of my favorite as well. And the teether, teathers absolutely because that's where we, that's really propelled our business. Also really love our swaddle blanket, muslin swaddle. So this is a little bit, I'll just share a little bit of like personal experience with my child. So my child, are, they're teenagers now. So muslin swaddle wasn't around when my kids were younger. I was using flannel. The flannel blanket.

Ramon Vela (54:52.149)
Hmm.

Angel (55:06.07)
They're thick, they're not breathable, and they're tiny. And I couldn't do a good swaddle. Like my husband had to do a swaddle every single night. I just couldn't get a really good swaddle. And I was thinking in my head, it's like, what is this piece of cloth that it's just doesn't, it's really hard to use. And not only that, my kids were, because it's not breathable, they broke out in hives. They had a lot of like the eczema.

issues all over the skin because they were too hot and I was a new one I didn't know any better right so I was like okay continue to swaddle and they were too hot okay thinking that it's gonna and it's gonna go away but took a long time for it to go away and so like the muslin the the muslin swaddle when I discovered the muslin swaddle I was just like whoa I wish that this was around my when my kids were just a newborn when like they were six months old because I had to swaddle my first one for six months

Ramon Vela (55:47.262)
Hmm.

Angel (56:04.602)
straight. And so I was just like, wish this is around, it would be such a lifesaver, be such a godsend, because then, you know, it's nicely like, it's generally sized, it's very breathable. And not only that, our prints are fantastic. I would say we have the best prints on the market. Okay. And because we put a lot of thoughts into designing the prints as well. It's not just like, just another floral print, or just another animal print.

Ramon Vela (56:21.375)
Thank

Angel (56:32.616)
Every single element on the print will look at the size, will look at the color, will look at the placement, and look at adding like little bit fun details like can you spot the red bird? Can you see what that baby bunny is doing? Just a lot of these details putting into it and that's what we really enjoy as well when we're designing the products. It's it's so fun. It brings us joy in doing that.

Ramon Vela (56:57.963)
Wow. Well, I love it because as I mentioned before, you guys have the experience, you're using your experience to build better products. You understand the market. And not just because you guys went through it, but because of the time and effort that you guys took during those pop-up days. And I'm sure now too, while you're in your communities and talking to people and so forth, you're still gathering that information. And I think that's what makes your products

what they are today. And not only that, but you you guys care and go to the effort of, you know, making sure that, you know, the products meet standards, that they're sustainable, that, you you you get a following, like the B Corp certification, you know, guidelines and all of that. I think all of it put together really shows your consumer and your potential consumers that you care.

And I think that's probably, like I said earlier, it's one of your secret sauces of success. So this has been fantastic. I want to be respectful of your guys' I want to make sure that they know where to go if they want to buy your products. And if there's anything coming up for the holidays that you want them to be aware of, please let them know. then lastly, there's any just things you want to leave with the audience, any last words?

Angel (58:25.898)
website, lillilollipop.com. But yeah, thank you, Ramon. Yes, we will have a special promotion coming up for BSCM. So thank you. And make sure that you not only sign up for a newsletter, but join our rewards club as well.

Eleanor (58:38.924)
you

Ramon Vela (58:45.781)
Great.

Eleanor (58:46.54)
Yeah, and then just wanted to add because thinking about our story, we didn't have any business degree or like really extensive business knowledge into operating business. I mean, sometimes you have to believe in yourself, especially for women too. So if you trust your gut and then go for it, you will never regret.

Ramon Vela (59:11.867)
I love that. And you guys are both such an inspiration. Really, you know, everything you've built, everything you've done, it's not easy to get it off the ground and build it and grow it and, you know, work on the products, you know, development and so forth. Like I mentioned early on in the very beginning, you know, you guys believe and not just you, but your team, I'm sure you believe you sweat and tear over creating a great product, a great experience, you know, and a great community. So.

Thank you for all of that. You guys look like you have great products. I don't have any kids in that age group anymore, but there's a lot of people who do. So anyone out there listening, I highly recommend you go to the website and you go check out and see if there's something there for you. And I didn't see it there, but you know, there's probably a way for you to also buy gift cards for people because this makes a great gift for anyone in your life who does have a baby who's expecting it has young children.

go check it out and then if you do have those, make sure that you sign up for the newsletter because enjoying the program that Angel mentioned that, you know, this makes a great product, especially during the holidays which are coming up, definitely encourage you and highly recommend you go to the website. So thank you so much for being on the show and for sharing a little bit of your story with us.

Eleanor (01:00:33.688)
Thank you, Ramon. Yeah, it's honored.

Ramon Vela (01:00:36.395)
Yeah, well, it was my pleasure and my honor to have you guys on the show. Everyone out there, I highly recommend, like I said, go to the website. We have just had Angel Ko and Eleanor Lee, who are both co-founders and twin sisters of Lulu Lollipop. Actually, that's something I forgot to ask you guys about being twin sisters. Do you find, you know, just to put it in perspective, I have some people who...

have co-founders, sometimes they don't get along, sometimes they do. It's always a struggle, especially because you're bringing two strangers in and try to build a business, even if they're friends. Do you guys find it's easier or harder to work as twin sisters?

Eleanor (01:01:28.214)
I don't know, there's no comparison. But we do, like to be honest, we do have moments that we will argue and then we'll have very heated argument. But like personally, I do think that because we think alike a lot.

A lot. Even when we finish each other's sentences, there's definitely, I would say, more like a leaning on each other because there's somebody there to support you. Because as simple as I know, if I step away for a couple of weeks, or for example, I'm taking a holiday for a couple of weeks, I know somebody's there taking care of the business. I can trust. And that's really important too. Yeah.

Ramon Vela (01:02:10.251)
Hmm.

Angel (01:02:14.174)
And I wanted to add there is a story that I think a lot of people don't know about it. It's that Eleanor and I twins were two minutes apart, but my mom, my parents didn't know that they were actually having twins. So we have an older sister that's six years old, older than us. And then when they have, when my mom had, so she, her belly wasn't too big. And at the time it's like 40 some years ago. So it's dating myself.

Ramon Vela (01:02:28.735)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (01:02:41.547)
you

Angel (01:02:42.622)
that there were no ultrasound or nothing and the doctor also didn't hear two heartbeats. were no two. I guess they only heard one. So my mom had C-section. It was only on the operating table. They realized that they're twins. They're two babies. So they everything they only prepare one set of everything because they're thinking to just have one baby. So there two sets. So they needed two sets. They need to figure out

Ramon Vela (01:02:58.442)
Wow.

Angel (01:03:11.194)
And I still remember my mom told us like, well, in the beginning, there is no formula, no milk, nothing like that. So she would just dip a, at that time, like a piece of biscuit, a dry biscuit in water and just let us suck on it. And we were less than a month old. It just, yeah, I was like, okay, we survived. And then afterwards, because of the situation, because we were born, actually born in Shanghai, China.

Ramon Vela (01:03:27.883)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (01:03:32.043)
Thank

Angel (01:03:39.287)
So at that time, because of the situation at that time, my parents, they had to go back to work like soon after. My mom had to go back to work and she was working in Beijing and my dad was in another province. they gave, Eleanor and I were basically separated since we were a month old until we were six years old. So we were with different nannies. Eleanor has one nanny in one province. I had another nanny in another province and the nannies, all

Ramon Vela (01:03:51.755)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (01:03:58.058)
No.

Angel (01:04:07.008)
their own child as well. So we didn't really know each other like Eleanor and I is like, but I mean, your kids when you once we were together at when we were six years old, I was like, yay, there's another playmate. Okay. Yeah.

Ramon Vela (01:04:18.731)
Wow.

That is such an interesting story. know, I know it's not exactly like this, but have you guys ever seen the Parent Trap movie where the two sisters are separated at birth? know, Lindsay Lohan is in one version of it when she's young and they're separated. I mean, it's a different standpoint, I guess, but they're separated at birth and then they find each other at summer camp.

Angel (01:04:32.938)
I hope. that, yeah.

Angel (01:04:37.3)
I think I might have. Yeah.

Ramon Vela (01:04:46.587)
And they become like best friends. And then they realized that they're actually sisters, you know, because, you know, they look like each other and then they realized, you know, your dad is my dad and your mom is my mom. anyhow, it's a funny story, but you know, it kind of reminds me what you just said, but wow, that's an amazing story that you just mentioned. And what a surprise for your parents. Like I can't imagine, you know, thinking you're going to have this child and all of sudden there's two babies there. It's like, wow, that is, that is, that is quite the story. And,

You know, it's like having a co-founder is really about learning to trust each other, I think. And for you guys, I think you guys already had that built in, you know, and that you guys trusted each other already. So you have a sort of a connection. So I think that that's also part of it too. But thank you for sharing that. Thank you for being on the show. That's a great story. I'm glad you mentioned that.

and everyone out there, have just had this wonderful conversation with these twin sisters. Interesting story to end our conversation with. But definitely, like I said, go and visit the website. And that is lululollipop.com. We're going to have that link on our podcast description, which you can find at Apple and Spotify and pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts. Simply type in the story of a band show and you should be able to find it pretty much anywhere beyond that.

You know, as I always say, stay safe, stay sane, stay healthy. In this case, go to the website, go check it out and see if there's something there for you. And even if you don't have kids or you're not planning on having kids, you probably know someone in your life that does. Go have them check this out. And then beyond that, everyone, we've all been going through a lot of stuff, know, tariffs and politics and geopolitical wars and all sorts of stuff. It stresses a lot of people out. Let's just do ourselves a favor. Let's just...

Try to be a little kinder to each other and remembering that everyone is going through something. And if we can just be a little kinder to each other, I know we can make this human experience a better one. Beyond that, thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening to another episode of the story of a brand.