Flytographer - The Power of Saying Yes to Your Idea

Ramon Vela (00:02.68)
Welcome back everyone. We have a great show. I have an amazing founder today. So let's get started I have Nicole Smith who is founder and CEO of flightographer Welcome to the show

Nicole Smith (00:33.375)
Hello, Ramon. Thanks for having me.

Ramon Vela (00:35.704)
Well, I appreciate you making time for me. You're running a company and so I know you're very busy and I appreciate it. And by the way, I actually don't have that many companies like yours on the show. So of course we feature on consumer brands and consumer products and services, but I don't always have an app on the show. And I know this is more than just an app. It's their services and all sorts of things, but I'm just always.

happy to have something a little bit different on the show and I appreciate you making time for us and so I can't wait to dive in. My starting question for those who are out there new listeners is a gratitude question. I do this for a couple of different reasons. One is we're going to start talking about the journey and about the ups and the downs, the challenges, the milestones, et cetera. And I just think it's a great way to sort of start off

a conversation about the journey because entrepreneurs go on a journey and it's really difficult. They bleed, sweat and tear over bringing a product to market. And there's a lot of ups and downs. And so I kind of, you I think it's a great way to kind of look back and just think about what you're grateful for in this journey. But the other reason is I want you, the listener, to know that there are real people behind these brands, these companies that we feature.

And so I like to bring it down to a sort of a personal level, a person level, and really sort of understand the people that we're interviewing. It's not just some faceless corporation. It's so easy to look on the web and see an app or see a product on the shelf or in retail and just think like, oh, it's some conglomerate, it's some large company. But no, there's a lot of small businesses that are fighting the good fight and really love what they do.

and care about the community, the consumers, the quality of their service or their products. And I like to get to know who those people are. So a great way of getting to know them again is by understanding what they're grateful for. So Nicole, if you don't mind, can you share a moment or a memory when someone did something for you that just made you feel grateful because that meant that they believed in you, your vision or your potential.

Nicole Smith (02:48.573)
Yeah, so it happened to me shortly after the pandemic as a travel brand. you know, obviously had our business pretty much come to a standstill during the pandemic and sales went to zero. We had to lay off a lot of our team and I had a friend who was a founder.

And she was telling me about her company who they just raised a couple million dollars in series a were doing really well and I was in the trough of sorrow and she was you know, soaring over here and and I asked her like what you know, how you know, what what's the secret why you know how things turned around for your business so much in the year and half since we last spoke and she said I Got a leadership coach

and her name is Goalie and she has changed my life. And so she started telling me about conscious leadership and this coach that she was working with and

It sounded great. And she said, well, you should probably work with this coach too. And I thought, well, we don't really have a budget for stuff like that right now. We're coming out of the pandemic, you every dollar counts. And so I said, thank you, Bernadette, but you know, maybe I'll keep that in mind for when the business recovers a little bit more. And she said, no, Nicole, think you, you know, you need it now because I think this is going to change, be a game changer for you. Like it was for me and Bernadette gifted me time with goalie.

coach. And it doesn't sound like a big deal. But Ramon, the reason I share this story is because that was four years ago. And my coaching from goalie has fundamentally changed how I've shown up.

Nicole Smith (04:30.655)
not only as a founder and leader for my team, but how I've shown up as a mom, as a human, in terms of just really changing everything about my mindset and kind of going from a place of fear to a place of curiosity in how I show up. that particular moment was a a pivotal one for me that

Yeah, I just will never forget her generosity. And I've paid it forward since to other founders and gifted them sessions. But I think it's one of the most important things you could have as a founder is that self-awareness, the mindset, the gratitude and the ability to really be resilient.

Ramon Vela (05:14.484)
Mm-hmm. And so that's very interesting. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm really curious about that. And if you don't mind, can you share some of the takeaways, like maybe an example from a business standpoint, like how has it helped you? Because I think I understand, because I practice a lot of

Mindfulness and I find that the mindfulness has helped me not only my business and how I see things but also my personal life as well and so I'm curious for those out there who may be may not have tried either any of these sub of Modalities What are some of the ways that has helped you with your business?

Nicole Smith (05:57.887)
So I think before I this coaching came into my life.

As a founder, a startup founder, often, know, everything's new, everything's, you know, you're trying to figure things out for the first time. And so my default factory setting was fear, like, gosh, okay, now I've got to figure this out. And then, you know, you'll get all these challenges all the time, and you're trying to figure out what is the best way to wrestle with this challenge or that challenge. And I think what shifted for me was a couple of things. A lot of it's based in the concept of no

the location, like where you're at emotionally. So when let's say a challenge comes your way, whether it's with customers or your team, being able to, you know, kind of be immediately aware of your feelings and where, you know, how you're showing up when you're receiving this news. And then acknowledging that and being able to shift to a neutral place inside of yourself so that you're kind of able to receive the information and not react from a place of fear or

you know, just be really aware of where you're at emotionally and try to get to a place where you're more neutral. And then I think the second, you know, there's lots of tools, but that would be the main one is really thinking about like that self awareness as you're receiving the information, trying to get as neutral as possible. And then when you respond, try to respond from a place of curiosity versus fear. And I think a lot of us like you hear something and you want to react and oh, I don't know.

or you kind of, that was my default setting for years. now I kind of go, okay, well, tell me more about that. Like, what does that mean? And how does that show up for you? And I think when you start to be pivoting your mindset from, you know, below the line, a place of fear to above the line, a place of curiosity, it can help unlock things from, you know, how you communicate with your team and build trust because you're able to show up in a different way as a leader. But like I shared, like it helps me as a mom, it helps me as a daughter,

Nicole Smith (08:03.025)
me as a friend because I feel more regulated in how I respond to everything and more reflective as well. And that leads to more resilience as you go through these different trials and tribulations as a founder.

Ramon Vela (08:10.114)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (08:15.81)
Yeah, I love that. And I love to hear that. in this process, you, was there anything about identifying and or rebooting or reinforcing your why of what you're doing?

Nicole Smith (08:36.509)
I mean, my why is that like.

as a brand and what we do as a company, for me personally is we are here to help people remember their favorite stories forever. So that is why I started the company. kind of the genesis of the idea is that we go through life, we have these moments, these moments are meaningful to us, and then we wanna relive them, we wanna go back to them. And so how do we create ways for that to happen? And so...

as a business that's flightographers wise, helping people remember their favorite stories forever. And personally, I'm on a mission to help more moms get back into the photo, because moms are often the ones behind the camera. They're the ones thinking about capturing family memories, but oftentimes, there's no evidence that they were in them. And so that's something that I, as a mom personally, is really meaningful to me. So yeah, that's how our why shows up.

Ramon Vela (09:38.318)
The reason why I asked that is that I've talked to founders and when we start talking sometimes about the why or why did we start what we did? The struggle is so difficult and there's so much noise and things going around that it's easy to forget why we started this. Now we might repeat it from a corporate mission standpoint, which is fine, but we sometimes forget how it's like.

the emotional side or the feeling side or the side that really brings that energy to you to keep going. And you know that that energy to keep going is essential so that you don't burn out. Because you're going to be facing lots of difficulties. so you need something that's going to keep pulling you forward even when you don't feel like it. I remember one...

one founder, she was the founder of a brand called Bev, think. I think her name was Elique, Elique's, I don't remember exactly, but she sold a company since then, but it was a beverage brand. It's like a can, a wine can, wine inside of a can. And it was really beautiful, really, very lifestyle type brand. And I remember asking her, what would she tell her younger self who started the brand?

Nicole Smith (10:49.267)
Nice.

Ramon Vela (11:03.054)
And she thought for a second, and she said, she goes, well, actually, I wouldn't say anything to that person. I would ask them to remind me why I'm doing all this stuff. Because, you know, it's easy to forget. And that why is just so essential because for me, it's like, think that not remembering your why or not revisiting your why and just getting lost in the day to day struggles is one of the elements that causes the burnout.

Nicole Smith (11:15.615)
Hmm.

Nicole Smith (11:31.519)
Yeah.

know, of the things that we do at Flightographer is we have this Slack channel and inside the Slack channel we have a channel called Joy Waterfall and the Joy Waterfall is images coming in from all over the world every day of people that we've captured and you know, it's when they opt in to share because not all customers want to share their photos but the ones that do. So we get to scroll through my whole team. There's 12 of us that are small, little stars.

up and 11 are women, just one man, and we look, we can see these images. There was a woman today whose photo came through from Bali and it was her 40th birthday and she's just like absolutely glowing and people share these heartfelt stories and I think this is for like for me that one of the best parts of my job and the why and I know my team says this too is we get to hear the reasons why people are taking these trips, you know, these hard

stories, whether it's a reunion, a love story, or like just a new chapter after a divorce and they're out there exploring the world again. And so they share these stories with us, we get to see their photos. And it's honestly like it's like candy every day. I look forward to that, like glimpsing that and seeing the stories and it's honestly, think makes you realize the world is a lot more alike than different because people

just they want to celebrate love, they want to celebrate joy, adventure with the people that matter and the places they're exploring and be able to revisit these stories and so being able to see that visually every single day in this little you know slack flow called a waterfall but you know I think it's really important for my team too to realize the impact of the work that they're doing that these folks will have these memories forever so it's yeah it's definitely a highlight.

Ramon Vela (13:30.582)
Wow. I love what you just had. mean, as far as I'm concerned, like that's, this is the episode we like, we can just stop right now because it's so good. Like it's so powerful. We just have someone really takes that in. and from a founder perspective, I, this is, think so really so important. Just, mean, everything you said and everything we just discussed in this whole, approach and modality you discussed, it's really essential. pause.

Nicole Smith (13:38.052)
Thank

Ramon Vela (13:57.538)
I'm gonna pause for a second. And the reason why is I think your camera, like you're hitting yourself, hitting the table. Is the camera on the table?

Nicole Smith (14:07.103)
No, but I will try to be more still. Is that better?

Ramon Vela (14:11.822)
Yeah, I think when you're moving around and I don't know if it's on a table or if it's if on the ground But it's like it's your camera shakes a little bit So just fyi, uh, it looks great now, but I think when you're talking, um, and you're hitting

Nicole Smith (14:20.072)
Okay.

Nicole Smith (14:23.583)
I have like a, I'm working on not being so animated because I always, like my default is to like shake my arms and so I'm going to maybe, maybe I'll keep my arms, my arms underneath me.

Ramon Vela (14:36.682)
So I'm the same way. then plus I have restless legs all the time. Like they're always moving. like look at the, you see that? You see the mic? So my leg sometimes shakes and the mic shakes, especially if I'm touching it. And then I also move around a lot. So what I do is I just, I move my hands, cause I like to talk about my hands. I just like keep them above the table, you know, and I do that.

Nicole Smith (14:48.915)
Well, yeah.

Nicole Smith (14:59.903)
That's smart. I'm going to keep my hands off the table.

Ramon Vela (15:02.702)
I don't want to stop you from expressing yourself, but I just want to, you know, just FYI, because it looks great. Yeah, it looks great, but sometimes it's a little bit moving around. Okay. So let me count us back in. Unpause one, two, three. So yeah, again, this is just, this is just wonderful. I love to talk about this stuff and I have some questions that I'll tell you offline or ask you offline, but, but thank you for sharing all of that.

Nicole Smith (15:07.731)
Thank you for joining us.

Ramon Vela (15:31.786)
I think that, like I said, I think this is incredibly useful for a lot of founders. Let's take a step back and let's talk a little bit about how you got here, because what I'm really interested in right now is something you just said about moms and you wanting to make sure that they're back in front of the camera. So I kind of want to unpack that. And I have a feeling that that's also part of your journey. And so I want to know a little bit more about.

how you got involved. Because if I remember correctly, I think you were working, I think a corporate job or something like that. There's so many people that can relate to that. There's so many people, especially right now, People are being AI'd, right, out of their jobs or scared of AI. And they're thinking, I have this idea for a business or should I do it or should I not do it? And so I think some people can find some inspiration in your story.

Walk us through that a little bit. So where were you before and then how did you kind of decide to start flightographer?

Nicole Smith (16:34.815)
So I used to work at Microsoft and I was actually in Paris on a work trip for Microsoft when the idea for a flightographer happened.

my best friend lives in Copenhagen. She met me for the weekend in Paris when the work was done and we had these two glorious days, just the two of us, no husbands, no kids, just two besties strolling the cobblestones with our coffees and catching up on like, you know, much overdue conversation. And I have this moment where I said, this like, this is like the opus of our friendship. Does it get better than this? This you and I in Paris, we need to take a photo so we can remember it. And we did what most people do, which is

you hold up your iPhone to take a selfie and then it ends up being like just these two big floating heads. You can't even see the city behind you or you ask a stranger and you have seven chins and it's just you want to ask them again and again. And so this was happening. And then the next day, a friend of hers met us for brunch when a friend that just happened to live there. And I and I thought to myself, well, I'm going to ask this friend Anita if she can take a photo of us, but from a distance. that wide angle shot, because what I wanted to capture Ramon was the third character

which was the city, all this gorgeous Parisian architecture. so Anita took a few shots from a distance. Our backs were literally to the camera in half of them.

It was just trying to capture the moment, the feeling, really the feeling that we had looking around, soaking up that architecture. And so I got my camera back, you know, 15 minutes later, I looked at the pictures and I thought, this is the best souvenir I'll bring home on this trip. And this absolutely captures the spirit of where we're at right now. And so.

Nicole Smith (18:17.247)
I went home and I started thinking, this is the souvenir I'd want on every trip. is there a service out there? Like, how would I sell for this? And I realized there was no solution for it.

but I couldn't stop thinking about this idea. And so I came back to my home. was, know, I am a single mom of two kids. I think my kids were four and six then and worked at Microsoft, had a calm, good life, loved my corporate job actually. But this idea just kept gnawing at me. And for nine months, I couldn't stop.

thinking about it and it got to the point where I think it was about two months before my 40th birthday and I said to myself, okay, so you're either gonna do something about this idea or you're put it to bed forever because you've been thinking about it for nine months and driving yourself crazy. And I always joke, it kind of like bursts out of me like a third child because I just kind of like gestated this idea for so long and then I decided, okay, first step,

I'm gonna choose a name. Second step, I had a friend going to Paris and I said, hey, what if I were to hire a photographer for you and capture some photos? I have this crazy idea, are you okay with that? And then I had another friend going to London, another friend. So I just started doing these small little tests on the side while I continued to work my full-time job at Microsoft and.

I got enough kind of proof of concept as they say to feel like, okay, let's throw up a website and let's see what happens. And so that was literally how the idea came to me and then how I initially started testing the idea.

Ramon Vela (20:04.286)
Mm-hmm. And at what point, so you get the, you test this idea, at what point did you...

Did you release it out? So you're working with friends so far. At what point did you, or what milestone I guess you might call it, did you reach where you started going out to people who didn't know who you were and realized like, wow, there really is something to this?

Nicole Smith (20:34.879)
Yeah, I probably tested it for, I don't know, six or seven months with different friends traveling, got feedback each time from my friends, but also from the photographer. And I was like finding them on Craigslist. I was finding these random photographers in all these places and doing interviews over Skype, because this is back in 2012. And every time I did a session, I'd get feedback and I'd tweak the product, tweak what was offered for the next one. And then eventually I launched the website. It was March of

2013, I had 18 cities, 18 photographers, and I hit publish and the site went up and it was probably about two weeks before I got

an actual booking from a stranger. I had a few friends or colleagues at Microsoft that, you know, they do you a solid, they try your new thing out. But I remember that very first stranger booking and I would get these email, I get these texts to my phone when a booking came through and it was like 3 a.m. and I woke up because my phone dinged and I looked at it and it was this couple from London that was going to Paris on their honeymoon and I didn't know who they were but they had

Ramon Vela (21:18.328)
you

Nicole Smith (21:46.217)
the site and they had booked the shoot and I sat up in my bed and was like rubbing my eyes going, my god maybe this can work.

Ramon Vela (21:55.65)
Hmm, wow. And at that point...

Was it because you really have two sides of the business. You have both the consumer side for someone who wants to take a picture. And then you also have the side of the photographer, right? And of course you want them to have a great experience as well. cause you want, you know, it's hard to find people. And I know that like it's interviewing time on boarding and you got to test them, you got to see how they go. And when you find somebody you really like, you want to obviously want to keep them and keep them, you

busy and so and so forth. At that point, were you more consumer focused, but or were you also tweaking the program for the photographer side?

Nicole Smith (22:44.543)
Yeah, I really had to do both simultaneously because with a double-sided marketplace, you need to create something that customers find valuable, but you also need to make sure.

there's the value proposition for the photographer that it makes sense for them, that it's gonna work for them. And so it originally started with a lot of wedding photographers who were looking for side hustles or gig work around the weekend. So if I could bring them a customer on a Tuesday morning at 8 a.m., serve it up on a plate for them to easily just, it's not just any customer acquisition. It was also something outside of what

they normally did so it was kind of a portfolio expansion opportunity for them to capture travelers as well and so I really was thinking about both sides equally in the early days because I knew that this entire business is based on trust so you need to have the customers trusting that you're going to vet and provide photographers who are not only talented and reliable

but are someone who has a great personality, is gonna put you at ease and be excited to host you around their city. And then on the photographer side, there needs to be the trust that we're gonna take care of them, we're gonna pay them a fair fee, and that we're gonna have their backs if anything happens with the customer, there's misunderstandings that we're also gonna be supporting them as well. And I knew that this is a kind of business where I want them to feel like partners with us.

I want them to feel that we care about them and that we're in this together because that makes them show up in a way to be their best selves and then the customer gets that version of them and it's a win for everybody. And so it was really intentional about designing that to be not just this like kind of transactional gig economy type of business, but a really human centered company where, you know, some of the photographers that I hired back in 2013 when I launched

Nicole Smith (24:49.417)
still with me today. And in fact, I went to one of their weddings last summer with my two kids who are now 18 and 20. And it was a real full circle moment to, you know, kind of be working with her. And it was my kids and she's from Slovenia, but I've worked with her for over a decade. And, you know, from when she first started to, you know, now she's got married and, you know, going to the wedding. And so I look at a lot of my photographers as like family or friends around the world and

I think the heart is really in our community as a result of that.

Ramon Vela (25:23.918)
And so let's talk a little bit about some of the additional milestones, like maybe not the ones, like the challenge milestones. I think you mentioned about the pandemic, right? Let's talk a little bit about that, but let's talk about any other ones that really stand out to you. Obviously right now we're kind of going through something or...

there's a lot of uncertainty in the marketplace for consumers, especially. Let's talk about some of those milestones, the ones that really pop out. Because I know there's, you whenever I ask someone about the challenges, you know, it's like the founders always like, well,

You know, we can talk for hours on this because there's so many little ones, big ones. But those who stand out that I think really kind of like taught you lessons and helped define your journey, what were some of those challenges?

Nicole Smith (26:22.911)
I'd say there's like a few. So I would say in the early days, the biggest milestone was making the decision to leave my corporate job and go full force, jump off the cliff, and really go full time on Flightographer. Now, that was an interesting milestone because I'd spent the first year and a bit doing both. So full time at my corporate job.

doing Playtographer at night on weekends and also being, you know, 90 % single parent with the kids. And so I found that after a certain, you know, about a year and a half in, it wasn't sustainable and I had to make a decision and I had to decide like where I was going to go. And I know a lot of people struggle with that that have a corporate gig and have a side hustle. Like, how do know the moment to make that decision? And, and when I was going through that, I thought to myself, well,

If I'm 85 and I'm looking back at this particular moment, what will I regret more? Will I regret trying, going all in and spectacularly failing or will I regret more?

not trying, going the safe route and always wondering like what could Flightographer have been? And so that was the lens and it allowed me to go, okay, gonna leave my corporate job. I'm gonna live off my savings and I'm just gonna give Flightographer everything I can to see if it takes off. And I remember telling my dad and he was like so worried because he's in my corner, he's the best guy. And he was like, do you think Microsoft would take you back? And there's a point where...

I had to sell my car because the business wasn't making enough money to support. I had a mortgage, 40 at the time, but I sold my car and I did what I needed to do. And I remember my dad said to me, like, are you sure this is the right decision? Like you've sold your car now. And I remember feeling so resolute and I looked at him and I said, dad.

Nicole Smith (28:19.517)
I hate to break it to you, but I would sell my house next. Like that's how much I believe in this business. And so, you know.

That was sort of a big milestone for me in the early days, knowing that I was like emotionally all in on this idea. Luckily, we were able to raise an angel round about four months later. And so I was able to get my first office, hire my first two employees and start to scale the company. So that was sort of one of the big early milestones. And then the pandemic, which we talked about briefly, where we were doing great. We had a team of 20, an office, we were

Ramon Vela (28:41.496)
Thank

Nicole Smith (28:57.281)
scaling quickly, we were at like five million in sales at that point. And suddenly the entire world stopped traveling. So when you think you've built a business that, know, well, this area, there's a problem. We still can sell in this area. I never planned, I never thought about.

a situation where the entire world would stop traveling at once. And so our business was hit not only with no money coming in suddenly, but we have all these customers that pre book. And so we got all these refund requests. So in March, 2020, I'm sitting there and I'm seeing no money come in peak seasons just starting. then, know, hundreds of thousands of dollars of refund requests that we need to, you know, send back to customers, a payroll of 20 people, and just having no idea what's

Ramon Vela (29:17.784)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Smith (29:45.473)
coming, like there was no clarity for any of us at that time about what's coming next. that was probably one of the trickiest times as a founder, figuring out how do I navigate through all of this uncertainty and keep the business afloat so that there's something to come back to for not just my team, but for the 600 plus photographers around the world that we support.

Ramon Vela (30:08.766)
Mm-hmm. You know, I interviewed a founder not that long ago and their business is 30 years old or something like that, know, several decades, maybe even more than that. And we talked about the ups and the downs. And, you know, they said that they've been through like the 2008 recession, they were through the pandemic. And now, of course, the tariffs. I asked them, like, so how are you dealing with, you know, how are you

feeling about the tariffs and this uncertainty and potential recession and all this other stuff. And they just looked at me and like, we don't know. mean, we're planning, but at the same time, I feel like nothing fazes me. Like we've been through the ringer so many times. It's like, I'm kind of, they're cautious, but they're not gonna panic, is basically what they said.

Everyone approaches that differently because no one really expected the terrorists to be like the way they are and the uncertainty and all of that. What lessons have you learned from the pandemic that are now you're instituting, maybe not even from around the terrorists, but just in general to protect yourself from other stuff like that?

Nicole Smith (31:24.361)
Yeah, I think the biggest one was prior to the pandemic, we were focused on, you know, we've done a seed round, we were focused on growth at all costs. And what I realized after going through the pandemic was being profitable and being able to, you know, control your destiny is so important, even if it means a little bit slower growth. so since then, we focused on profitability and we've been profitable since then. And so I'd say that'd be the first thing. I think the second thing is looking

at where can we automate, where can we bring in like AI to make the team do more with less. So really looking at operationally, where can we have efficiencies and.

Focusing on the profitability piece is also key, but I think you really need to look at what are the things you can actually control versus the things that you can't because there's gonna be a lot of things that you can't control. So being able to be clear-headed about, these are levers I can control and influence and be intentional about where we invest has I think been one of the most important things. so that's helping me navigate through this. I think as you go through these tough moments, whether it's a pandemic or

whatever. You just build up more resilience and scar tissue and confidence on how to navigate the next one and navigate because there's going to always be something and so it's how you show up and really think about being intentional with how you're how you're running your business and so.

Ramon Vela (32:57.582)
And I would also imagine that some of the things we talked about earlier around the conscious leadership, know, what you just said, like, you know, focus on the things you can control. that I would imagine that's something that you've learned or, you know, studied or, you know, practice view your conscious leadership because that's, you know, that's the thing is that there's so much around you that you cannot control.

Nicole Smith (33:05.725)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (33:27.654)
but we, we try to, right. And we, and we try to, at least our thought process is like, you know, we, we have to do, you know, we have to figure this out, but sometimes there's a lot of stuff we just cannot control. And so you have to be able to be clear headed. You have that clarity.

and then look at the areas that you can control and kind of focus on that and focus on solutions versus focusing on like, my God, this is terrible, right? And this is like, this is the worst in the world. Well, it may be worse, it may be bad, but you know, having that sort of like thinking can overwhelm you and envelop you and you can find yourself sort of like very negative and everything else. So,

So I would imagine that that probably was very helpful to you.

Nicole Smith (34:17.597)
I think it was incredibly helpful. it also, I one of the things I always try to remind myself is that even if you can't control things around you, you always, you're always in choice. There's always choices. And so to look at situations when bad stuff is happening or things, you know, your sales are down or you're, you know, you're not sure about what's going on with something. You always remind yourself that you're in choice and to be able to like reflect and, and, kind of move forward from that.

from that mindset is super important as well. But yeah, the more self-inquiry you can do and the more reflective you can be, it just makes you more resilient. And I think that's really important as a leader to be able to show that, show up as sturdy as you can, as clear as you can, as transparent as you can for your team so that everyone can kind of feel the energy of that. Because if you're showing up with that chaotic fear,

below the line thinking, panic, that's also infectious. So really think about how you wanna show up and it's important.

Ramon Vela (35:26.924)
Yeah. And you know, can I take a step back real aside those as you were speaking, I had this thought and I just want it's more of an observation than a question. But but I think a lot of people can relate to this and can be inspired by this. The fact that you were a single mom and starting all this, that is incredibly brave.

Nicole Smith (35:37.662)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (35:50.862)
And then, you're the one that mentioned your age. So I'll say it, but you said you were in your 40s. the thing is, well, and, that's the thing is that so many people feel like when they reach a certain time, like they've, it's like they've missed the boat. Like they can't.

Nicole Smith (35:58.527)
I'm 52 now.

Ramon Vela (36:11.65)
They can't reinvent themselves. can't restart. It's too late for them to try. They've got too many responsibilities. They've got all this stuff. you know, and, you know, a lot of that's why a lot of people start businesses when they're very young, cause they could, they could, you know, they can lose everything and then start over again and so forth. But, you know, there's a lot of people that live a life of, you know, that phrase, quiet desperation.

Like they want to change. They want to try something different. They have an idea. They want to do something. They feel like there's some music inside them that just, excuse me, isn't able to come out. Pause. Excuse me. Unpause. One, two, three. They have a music in them that just isn't coming out or may never come out. Right. There's a famous book and I don't remember the

Tolstoy or one of those Russian writers, can't remember who it is, it was a short story and at the very end of the book it says something about what if my life was wrong? What if I should have done this and done that and never did it? And I just wanna say it's incredibly brave of you to do that. mean, that takes a lot of courage to at 40 decide that, I wanna do something and I wanna do that.

And the way that you phrase it or put it in perspective, which is, will I live in regret? Will I regret this when I'm older? And when I hear about people, and I don't want to be morbid, but the reality is that we're not going to last forever. And that's just the reality of it. And I always see those stories, those articles about people who at the very end of their lives, they regret not taking chances. They regret.

not doing certain things. But still, it's very courageous of you. I think that's inspiring.

Nicole Smith (38:12.415)
That's very kind. Thank you. I think that if you are passionate about an idea and you have this vision that you want to bring it into the world,

that you can, you know, if you have that passion for it, doesn't seem like work in some ways, if that makes sense. So I've been working at this for over 12 years now, and it's had a lot of ups, a lot of dark days, a lot of great joys. But I think that kind of through line of it all is that

really love that I get the opportunity to do this work and I get to work with amazing photographers all over the world who, know, like Roberta in Rome and like Ku in Tokyo and Emily in London and Crystal in Paris and, you know, every time I travel I get to hang out with them. It just reminds me of like, again, like what a beautiful place the world really is and the fact that we get to capture people's stories and preserve them for future generations.

It's just like it's a deep honor and so on those days where I'm in, you know The lowest of the lows and the pits of the pits It just reminds me you know what? It's a gift to to be able to do what what you get to do and and so you'll figure it out You know, you'll get through it. You always do this is temporary and you kind of navigate through these things but if you are working as a founder or a startup on an idea I think one of the most important things in what really serves

being resilient is that you really love what you're doing and you think it's making a difference in the world because I think that can change everything and that can really get your team to come along on that mission with you as well.

Ramon Vela (39:46.446)
Thank

Ramon Vela (39:55.436)
Yeah, I love that. And thank you for sharing that because I think it's important. There's a lot of people who, like I said, who know exactly what I just said, can feel it, what I just said, because they feel that, they have that quiet desperation, that feeling that they want to do something. And I personally believe, kind of like you, that, because I actually...

Well, I've been an entrepreneur most of my life, but at 48, I decided to start a podcast. And I was actually working anywhere. I mean, I had some money and so forth, but I gave myself a few, I gave myself like three months to figure out, I actually start making a living off of this? Can I do this? I didn't have any...

I didn't even know if I could interview people. had no idea how to do a podcast. I didn't know anything about microphones or anything like that or recording or editing or anything like that. And I just did it. I just took the leap and I just did it. But a lot of people, you know...

would say, you know, 48, are you kidding me? Like you're already like on your way out, like you're already done. Like you're like, you know, you should be just enjoying life. And I just felt like, well, I am enjoying life. This is like what I love to do. I mean, after a thousand interviews, I'm, you know, uh, I'm still, I still feel exhilarated when I interview people like you and others. Um, and so. You know, that, you know, I think you need to look at it at the wider picture. Like, you know, I, we are only here for.

you know, few moments in time really. And I really want to make the most of this life. you know, maybe maybe who knows, maybe we get a second chance. But I don't know that. But I want to try everything I can to get this first chance and do, you know, do something like that. So, again, just really courageous what you did. Let's let's let's talk now about the surface. So.

Ramon Vela (42:01.334)
The idea is fantastic. Actually, I thought about you. let me make sure that people know. If you haven't already, you can take a look at what we've been talking about by going to flightographer.com. Let's see. Let me make sure I got that right. Yeah. flightographer.com. It's fly the word F L Y and then talk to tographer T O G R A F I'm sorry. P H E R I'm terrible at that.

I'm looking at it right now I'm still getting it wrong. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now, I'm still getting it wrong. Flytographer.com. let's talk about it. And as I was mentioning, I thought about you not that long ago because I was reading or seeing a story on the news about a family who was visiting, I think, Washington and they were in front of one of the...

Nicole Smith (42:31.197)
You want the first one, it's a mouthful.

Ramon Vela (42:58.862)
one of the monuments, like the Washington Memorial, I think it was, and they were taking a picture. They said they hired a photographer and they were taking a family photo to capture the special moment. And and then as they took a picture, someone walked by and it happened to be President Obama. And it was kind of a funny moment. And I think that's why obviously why it was so special. And he kind of like, you know, he didn't mean to be sort of photobomb the picture. And at that moment, I thought,

Nicole Smith (43:25.597)
You know.

Ramon Vela (43:29.248)
wow, that would be cool if that was one of your photographers. But I mean, at the same time though, like that just, it's also illustrative of the kind of stuff that you do. Not so, not that a president will walk by, but you don't even mean like capturing those moments. So I just thought that was funny. Cause I had just done a pre-interview with you and then that happened and I thought, wow, now I get it. That's so cool. So walk us through, let's start from the consumer side.

walk us through like, what does that look like from a consumer? they hear about this, they listen to this episode, they go to the website, flittographer.com, and what do they do?

Nicole Smith (44:07.599)
So when they come to the site, they would basically go to the destination they're traveling to. So we're in 360 cities around the world. Paris is probably our busiest city, but

Let's say you're going to Paris, you're going on a honeymoon, you go to our Paris page, and then you can see all the photographers that we've handpicked in Paris. can view their photos, see their portfolio of work, and read all of their reviews, and then book them. You can either book them instantly, or you can request and ask questions. So the idea is that wherever you're traveling, you can easily book a local.

trusted photographer that is super excited to spend an hour in that destination with you. And when I started the company, this was not part of the plan. But what I quickly learned from our customers was that one hour with that local ended up being one of the highlights of their trip because they get great tips about the city in a really authentic way. So it's not a scripted tour. It's not a, you know, you know, kind of a checklist. And it depends on who you are. So our customers range from, you know, I would say

moms, that's probably 40%, the family's going on a trip where the mom wants to get in the photo too, or multi-generational reunions, but we have a lot of couples that are going on, whether it's a honeymoon or milestone anniversary or just a bucket list trip. And we also have a lot of solo travelers and friend trips as well. Surprise proposals is, believe it or not, about 10 % of our business globally, where someone wants to propose in another city and we help capture the moment for them. So whatever the occasion,

our photographers are able to capture it. And so when people go to the site, they know that they can kind of really find that photographer that suits their style and then be able to book that photographer after seeing kind of all the reviews and all of that. So then the next thing that happens is when you go to the destination. So let's say you're going to to to Paris, you'd meet the photographer at the destination that that's agreed to. And then you spend that one hour just, you know, walking around with them. They take

Nicole Smith (46:17.885)
beautiful photos in front of those iconic backdrops. So you can decide what part of the city you want to shoot in. have roots in every city. Every city has about five or six roots with like examples of what the backdrops drops will look like. So you can imagine what you're going to be seeing in your photos. And then while you're walking around, they're taking great photos. Like I said, they're sharing authentic tips. And maybe it's if you're a family, there's a really cool street fair on Sunday down this alley or a farmer's market. Or if you're into

like thrift shops, they can tell you the thrift shops or if you're into theater, they can tell you the best play that's going on right now. So it's sort of like talking to a friend, right? It's not a, again, it's just them telling you their opinion as a local creative.

Ramon Vela (47:01.282)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Smith (47:01.629)
And so that's what I love. And that's what our customers have said again and again is that the best tip is to book your flightographer shoot on your first day in a destination because you'll get so many great nuggets and tips that you can use throughout your trip. But the second reason is you can kind of put your phone away because you know you've got memories captured and you can be more present in the rest of your vacation. So that's something we hear a lot as well.

Ramon Vela (47:26.604)
Yeah. And I like what you said earlier on about your personal mission to make sure that moms get back in the picture. obviously it could be moms or dad, but there's always someone that has to be behind the camera, right? Someone's always missing. that's the terrible part. Like for instance, like with my wife, when we take pictures, I typically the one behind the camera and I try to play it off like, I don't need to be in front of the camera or whatever, especially during like family events and so forth.

Nicole Smith (47:42.27)
Yes.

Ramon Vela (47:56.582)
And, and I was played off like, it doesn't, you I'm okay. Don't worry. But I do want to be in the picture sometimes.

Nicole Smith (48:03.295)
And you should be and like your family too like you look at like over the years they're gonna want to see evidence so it's just it's not just for you it's also for for them because they want to see you as the heart you know heart of the family that you're in there too like

And yeah, that's what I always say to moms. It's not just about you getting the photos, but it's also about your kids. They want to see evidence of my, I look back at my family photos and my mom isn't hardly any of them because she was the one always taking them. so yeah, we're always trying to like fix that. And we've to date got over 35,000 moms back in the photos. And that's probably one of the stats I'm like most proud of is just knowing that those 35,000 moms are going to be in the memory. So yeah, special.

Ramon Vela (48:43.458)
Yeah. I love that. And, you know, that is such a, there's so many different benefits to that. Like you said, not only just to capture the memories, but you're more comfortable and you can put your phone down and you can capture some great pics, whatever place you are or wherever the backdrop is. And it's really just a novel idea. It really is because it's one of those things where

you it's you it's such a really cool thing to do well at the same time i just never would have thought about it like i just never would have you know thought about it especially when you travel you know if you're in business you you know you hire a photographer to take pictures of you or things like that that's one thing you know

Nicole Smith (49:31.743)
Right.

Ramon Vela (49:32.942)
But from a family standpoint and capturing those memories, it's just something I would never have thought about, but it's such a novel idea. Like now that I think about it, I'm like, Ooh, next time we take a trip, maybe I'll use your service. Cause it'd be kind of cool to take a really cool, you know, cool set of pictures somewhere. Like, um, for me, for me, I would love to do it like in, um, um, like, uh, what is that thing in Zion Canyon or someplace like that, because I love nature and there's so many beautiful.

backdrops that you just like, want to capture that and I wish I was in there and I wish someone actually knew how to take a picture because we're all sort of.

Nicole Smith (50:06.676)
Yeah.

Nicole Smith (50:14.079)
Because you're the one always taking it of everyone else. Yeah.

Ramon Vela (50:16.62)
Yeah. And then not only that, like I'm not the best photographer, right? Like I'm just taking, I'm just hitting a click, but there's, night and day, you know, when someone takes a picture, like someone who knows what they're doing, takes a picture of you. It really is night and day. I've seen that for myself.

Nicole Smith (50:34.141)
It is interesting because I, know, as you know, I'm a single mom and so there's no one else taking pictures in my house. So over the years as the boys have grown up, because I've had this business, I've been able to be on many photo shoots in different places. And it took actually until the pandemic for me to print them. So I have all these amazing photos for, you know, just as part of the job. And it wasn't until like the world shut down that actually it was like, okay, I need to take time to put these on the walls. And so I've since...

put our photos on the walls and I look at my walls now and they tell our family's greatest adventures. And every time I walk into the kitchen, I see this one photo of the kids in front of Lake Louise in Canada or this incredible mosaic tile in Lisbon. And it takes me right back to that moment. And so I always say like, make sure you do that last mile of getting it out of your camera.

Ramon Vela (51:31.022)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Smith (51:31.711)
printing it and putting it on your wall. And it just becomes a serotonin hit. Walking by with my coffee in the morning, I can look at this photo of my son and I in Japan. so, yeah, that's one thing I'm always trying to spread the word on is print your photos, put them on the walls, because we tend to get stuff trapped into our phones and devices these days.

Ramon Vela (51:53.676)
Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. I love this. And there's also, as we mentioned, there's two sides to this. There's the consumer side, but there's also the photographer side. And I would imagine that this is probably a welcome service for the photographer as well, because not only can they get new business, but they're...

I guess also depending on the season when there's travel season, they can look forward hopefully to some work and things like that. But they're just expanding their business as well. Talk to us a little bit from the photographer side. Like if someone's listening to this and they're a photographer, how do they get started? What does that look like?

Nicole Smith (52:37.075)
Yeah, so there's a page on our website where I think it's called the join page and people can read all about it and see if it's a fit for them. We really look for photographers who are experienced and love storytelling. so wedding photographers have always been a good fit for us because they love people and they love interacting with people. And it's a great opportunity to kind of get those like side gigs around your regular work. But also it just, it's different, right?

different thing to add to their portfolio. And then we have a lot of photographers that all they do is vacation photography and

and know, I have like photographers that shoot four or five times a day in Paris or Maui or what have you. So there's the nice thing is it's really what works for you. So you can opt into, you know, booking all day long, or you can just say, I'm gonna take one a week because I want to shake it up a little bit. But I would say that the big thing is that you truly like are excited to host people around your city and take photos of them. And we have an incredible community. There's like I said, over 600

photographers in the community. We've had these global meetups in the past where they fly in from all over the world and then we spend a week together just going on photo walks and sharing best practices and tips and a thing that I hear a lot is it's so nice for them to meet colleagues or photographers from all around the world because they share the same struggles, they share the same joys and highs and just to be able to relate and have a community is really really nice for them as well.

But yeah, think that fundamentally it's a way to get paid. We pay every week, we are paying out photographers all over the world and

Nicole Smith (54:24.059)
It's, we've got so many that have been with us for like 10 years plus now. And those, those are the photographers that I'm just like, they're the best people. when my friends are traveling, I'm like, you need to meet Roberta in Rome. need to like meet, you know, my actually my older son is just in Santorini, he's twenties in college and he's, he's traveling with his girlfriend. And he's gonna, he just did a flightographer shoot in Santorini. So it's his first shoot he's done without me. And I said to him,

Ramon Vela (54:31.477)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (54:51.458)
Mm-hmm.

Nicole Smith (54:53.953)
well you've got to do a summer shoot because in IA in Santorini the sunrises are spectacular so you got to get up at like 5 30 a.m. and he not a morning person but I convinced him and he met with Spiros one of our photographers there met many times and you know they got a magic golden hour you know photo shoot but they got again they got to spend an hour with Spiros and learn more about Santorini from him and he ended up driving them back to their hotel and so he had that like really local experience at the same time and

Ramon Vela (54:59.95)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (55:03.598)
Thank

Nicole Smith (55:23.873)
So I think for the photographers that are interested in this, if that sounds like your cup of tea, then definitely check out Flightographer and see if it's a fit, because it's really fun.

Ramon Vela (55:38.636)
Well, I love that. And this has just been such an incredible journey for you. I mean, there's so much we could talk about, like dive in into lots of different areas. But, wow, I love this story. mean, you're working at a corporate job, you're being a single mom, you're having the courage to start this business, facing the things you're doing, and also taking this coaching, conscious leadership, applying it.

And I can tell that, you know, and I always tell people about this too, is that, you know, I went through a very difficult time in my life and I didn't do the coaching, but I really kind of did it on my own. And it doesn't happen overnight. It's like, it's something you need to practice. That's why they call it a practice, right? And...

Nicole Smith (56:29.267)
next

Ramon Vela (56:30.36)
But eventually it sinks in. If you're really diligent and continue to do it, it really kind of sinks into your consciousness. And then it starts happening little by little, almost automatically. And you still need to practice. There are times that are going to test you and you can get frustrated and angry or whatever, or get emotional. And you're still going to have those times.

Nicole Smith (56:39.135)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (56:58.242)
The thing is, is that you have these tools and if you practice them enough, they start to kick in. And then you realize, wait a minute. Okay, I'm angry. Why am I angry? What is this? like, you know what I mean? Like you start having those conversations in your head about this. Like you catch yourself sometimes. I often tell people like with, on a personal level, I was actually sharing this with someone yesterday that mindfulness, you know, my wife and I would always get in these arguments. We've, I mean, we're like, almost 27 years married.

And so we would get in these arguments and we've been having these little arguments all the time there. mean, not all the time, but you know, like when we have an argument, it's always started because she has a tone of voice that she uses. And I always think like, Ooh, she's blaming me or attacking me or something like that. And. And then I would like respond back and then it would always be a cycle, you know, like she says something and then I say something and then I regret it. She regrets it. And then, you know, then, then we, you know, make up and then we kind of, you know, but it's just.

So many people go through these cycles. And as I started getting more and more into mindfulness and it really kind of like getting, not only helping me in business, but also helping me in our personal life with different things. I remember one time where my first thought was, why is she telling me this? Like I gotta, not respond, but react. I wanna react. And then,

I caught myself and I thought, wait a minute. This is just a tone that she's using. It's not, she's not angry, but it's this tone that she's using and that's all it is. But what is she really saying? That's what I wanted to want to know. And then when I, when I can hear and determine what she's actually saying and not just a tone, you know, I, I thought, okay. Well, let me respond a different way.

instead of like doing the same cycle that we always do, let me respond instead and really respond to what she's actually saying and listening instead of reacting to the tone of voice. Cause sometimes people's tones are different. Anyways, it was a life changer. Like we don't argue all that much anymore. Even though she might get angry sometimes, we don't have these arguments anymore. I mean, you know, it's just really funny. Like people don't realize that.

Ramon Vela (59:25.486)
how we let these things, these emotions that are had, sometimes we don't even understand what we're doing. But anyway, I don't know why I went through that tangent, but I just really appreciate what you said because I think so many founders can really be helped by this kind of stuff. So thank you for sharing that and thank you for sharing your journey. I wanna be respectful of your time. I know you have a lot to do, this has been amazing. Thank you. I love the...

the app that you have, the service that you provide. I think it's so novel. I think it's a great idea. And even more so, I love this journey that you had and thank you for sharing it with our audience.

Nicole Smith (01:00:06.281)
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed our chat.

Ramon Vela (01:00:08.92)
So let's, if you don't mind, give out the website and any social media. And then if you have any last words to leave with the audience.

Nicole Smith (01:00:16.031)
So you can find us at flitographer.com and we are on Instagram at at flitographer. And I am at flitographer founder on Instagram if you want to connect with me directly. And I would say like, yeah, if you're thinking of starting a startup, do something you're passionate about and just take those first steps iterate, take the next step iterate. I was not a photographer when I started this. I had never built a startup. I had no idea what I was doing. But if you just

take action, get information, learn, you'd be surprised at how far you can go.

Ramon Vela (01:00:49.218)
Yeah. And then also, let's get the moms and dads back in the picture, you know, and everyone in the picture. Yeah.

Nicole Smith (01:00:55.102)
Yes.

Yeah, we're actually launching a new course June 1st.

Photos That Don't Suck Bootcamp. And so this is for the person that is photographically challenged. We have a fun free bootcamp launching digital at flytographer.com that you can register for and learn how to take better photos every day with your iPhone and notice the moments and act on it and capture it. you know, there's not just the one person in family that's doing that. So definitely check that out if it's interesting.

Ramon Vela (01:01:27.756)
Yeah, no, and I love those. I've run into some of those type of things in the past and they're really, really helpful because just like little things, because the iPhone actually can take some great pictures if you know how to use it. And so there's all these little tricks and things like that that I'm sure you're going to share because.

It really is a helpful tool. It's just that most of us don't know how to use it, right? We only use like 5 % of what they can do, right? But this has been fantastic. Thank you so much. And everyone out there, we're going to have the links to everything she just mentioned. And I would just recommend, go visit the website, learn for yourself what it is, flightographer.com. Sign up for the newsletter because that way you can learn more about the course that she has and all the other things that they provide and all the new things.

Nicole Smith (01:01:52.253)
Exactly.

Ramon Vela (01:02:16.418)
know, promotions and launches and things like that. So you can keep up to date on all that and it's probably the best way. Beyond that, go visit the website and I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. This is such a novel idea. And again, I also just love Nicole's journey and thank you again for sharing it. Everyone out there, like I said, we'll have those links on our podcast description on Apple, Spotify, and pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts.

simply type in the story of a brand show and you should be able to find it. Beyond that, everyone stay safe, stay sane, stay healthy. And one last thing, we've been going through a lot of stuff the last, I don't know, eight years or so, maybe 10. It feels like the pandemic feels like a blur now, but things have been crazy, right? The pandemic and then geopolitical wars and then talk of recession and now tariffs and all sorts of other stuff.

It could drive us crazy. And so let's do ourselves a favor and remember that everyone is going through something. Sometimes they may have lost their job. They may have an illness in their family. They may simply just be stressed out. It could be that person in front of you in the grocery line or on the freeway or wherever in the street. Let's just be kinder to each other. And I know we can make this human experience a better one. Beyond that, thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening to another episode of the story of a brand.