Flower Shop Perfumes Co. - Blending Art, Emotion, and Disruption

Ramon Vela (00:02.491)
Welcome back everyone. This is going to be a great show. I have two co-founders and a brand that we're gonna feature and I just can't wait to dive in. let's, or let me introduce you to Isaac Lakatch, who is co-founder and Lilian Shalom, who is both co-founders of Flower Shop. Welcome to the show.

Well, I appreciate you making time. I know just for everyone else's edification, this is a crazy day for you guys. So we're going to make this work today. And so I appreciate it. You guys are busy and I love that. I love that you guys have a lot of stuff going on. So we're going to make this as brief as possible, but I want to make sure the audience gets to know who you guys are and your brands. And then we'll hopefully get a little bit of Lillian's story.

Isaac And Lillian (00:51.948)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (01:12.995)
Just everyone out there. She actually has to go work with a client in about 20 20 30 minutes So we're gonna try to get as much of Lillian as possible within the first 30 minutes and then we'll have Isaac and he'll finish off the interview just so for those of you who will eventually be Watching this on video So let's start off with my favorite question, which is for me a really important question because I really like to take

the brand and the business down to a very human level. And I want people to know that there are real people that work behind the scenes that care deeply about the product, care deeply about their partnerships and their collaborations. They care deeply about the quality and the consumer and all of that. And one way of doing that is getting to know who we're speaking to, helping the consumer and the listener understand that

You you guys care deeply about the product, about the quality, about the community and all of the above. And one way of getting to know who you guys are as people on that human level is by understanding what you're grateful for. So if you don't mind with that said, can you share a moment or a memory when someone did something for you that just made you feel grateful because it meant that they believed in you, your vision or your potential?

Isaac And Lillian (02:35.897)
I'm going to start. Sure. I would honestly say teaming up with Isaac, I'm grateful for that because he has many decades in this industry and my background is in jewelry design and painting. when I jumped on board Flower Shop, he really trusted my input and my vision and.

really genuinely took the time to see my perspective on projects and really took them to heart and whether it meant delaying a project because I was really hell bent on a certain very nuanced element that I just felt was very important. He really, he paused productions to see my vision come through for the project because I just felt it was very important. So.

working with my life partner and my business partner. It's been very cool. So I'm grateful for that.

Ramon Vela (03:38.919)
I love that. Isaac?

Isaac And Lillian (03:41.965)
I didn't expect to cry so early into an episode. so, so Flower Shop is very much a family business. And, and actually the impetus for it is where I guess my my

Ramon Vela (03:44.356)
Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (04:02.379)
my memory goes in terms of answering your question about gratitude. when, so as Lillian said, I have, I have a deep history in fragrance. But when we got married, I was actually, I had stepped away from the industry and, and my father-in-law said, you know, what do you, was kind of helping, helping out my brother with a different project and

Managing an artist. I was doing a bunch of different things and and he said well, what are you doing? Why don't you get back into perfume? and you know really that It wasn't just the the suggestion that that sort of brought us here obviously like, you know, we put all put together some money and and and there was a Financial contribution as well sort of friends and family around to put this together and so that but but it really stems from him from my father-in-law and so

I'm definitely grateful for that because we wouldn't be here if not for that.

Ramon Vela (05:02.567)
Yeah, I love that. mean, essentially what you guys are talking about is a support network, right? And people who not only believe in you, encourage you financially or anything, but just by their energy, their words, how they treat you and how they validate your ideas. know, Lillian, you were talking about how he stopped a production run on something because you had a concern. And, you know, those things can cost money. So it's really like,

Isaac And Lillian (05:08.653)
Yes.

Ramon Vela (05:32.505)
he had to really have faith and believe that you had a concern that was worth stopping and looking into it. So that's actually a pretty big deal. And that shows his respect for you and also his belief in you as well. And in turn, you guys have this larger support network. So it's pretty cool. And those are the things that a lot of people don't...

Isaac And Lillian (05:34.849)
If.

Ramon Vela (05:56.625)
You know, we don't really talk about it so much because it's not as sexy because we always on social media and whatnot, you see the entrepreneur as an entrepreneur, individual or two people, you know, like, you know, doing stuff on their own. But the reality is it's like, there's a lot of people, your loved ones, your family, your friends, you know, your partners. They, there's a lot of people that kind of help you, you know, get to where you're going, you know, small steps, big steps, whatever, but,

Yeah, that's hugely important. And I'm glad you guys have each other as well as your support network. Because this is a tough business, Any building a brand is tough.

Isaac And Lillian (06:31.577)
Between our two fathers, we have two powerhouses guiding us throughout this.

Ramon Vela (06:40.293)
Yeah. Yeah. And you guys are very fortunate because I'm telling you, it's a hard business and it's hard. mean, business is hard. And, you know, it's just helpful to have people around you who can kind of encourage you and help you and guide you. So thanks for sharing that. So let's talk first about a little bit about the origin.

of all this. So you kind of gave us a little hint right now in terms of, you know, the, in terms of your background and what you were doing and encouraged you, but let's talk more specifically about the idea. Like, what was the idea? what was the idea that really, you know, captivated you and captivated all your family and said, this is a good idea. Like, was it, you know, just so the audience knows

and we're gonna get into this right now. There's a couple of websites we'll give out in a second, but you do collaborations, you do obviously fragrance and so forth, but was that the initial plan and idea that you described to people?

Isaac And Lillian (07:45.027)
Yeah, so I guess a little more history will be helpful for context. I grew up in the fragrance industry and my father built two different fragrance companies. And the one I worked for, where I got my start, is called Parlux Fragrances. And like the bulk of the industry, it's built off of the licensing model. So you'll see a parent company like Flower Shop or Parlux, whatever, get into a licensing deal with

whether it's celebrity or a brand, fashion, what have you. And then they'll build out the fragrance and manufacture, market and distribute. So for Parlux, I brought in Paris Hilton and made her first fragrance. And she's still, you know, the temple of their operation. 30 something fragrances in and over three billion in sales. We're no longer involved, but that's kind of where it started. From there...

Still, and this is, it's important to say that this was built around brick and mortar businesses, pre-internet or pre-selling direct to consumer. And so from there, I made fragrances for Katy Perry, Selena Gomez and Adam Levine when I run off on my own and made a separate company. And then I took some time away from the industry. Flower Shop is my return and

Ramon Vela (08:49.703)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac And Lillian (09:12.609)
As I mentioned, my father-in-law suggested I get back into perfume. And I had watched all of these other verticals get disrupted by going direct to consumer. So the original pitch was let's take the same model, the same licensing model and, and make a fragrance product, but go direct to consumer. Not, not, not bother with brick and mortar, at least at the get go, just go direct to consumer.

And let's see if, you know, people were buying eyeglasses, mattresses, all these things sight unseen, maybe they'll buy a perfume without smelling it. And so that was the sort of hypothesis, I guess, behind Flower Shop. And that's what, like I said, the friends and family round, that's what they believed in and they believed in us and that's what got us going.

Ramon Vela (09:55.621)
Thank

Ramon Vela (10:11.447)
No, I love that story and it's you have such credibility with all these different stars and so forth. It kind of made me think that, you know, now that I look back on it and had never really thought about this, but fragrances, I think have been probably one of the original that I can think of, at least in the modern in our modern history, last 20, 30 years.

was kind like the original sort of celebrity collaboration, right? was like, nowadays you have celebrities, know, collaborating with cookware companies and all sorts of companies. But I remember growing up, was always a star, you know, there was always a star collaborating with a perfume or a fragrance or something like that. And it feels like that was like, that was like some of the original stuff that was going on back in the day.

Isaac And Lillian (10:46.659)
Yes.

Ramon Vela (11:01.775)
Now it feels like there's a lot of opportunity. And there's also, think, a lot of opportunity even in the model that you're talking about, the director, consumer, because the word or the vibe of celebratiness is kind of wider now. Like now you have influencers and now you have all this other stuff that are pretty big in terms of their followers and so forth. So I can see that there's a lot of opportunity in this. So how did you guys tackle it first?

You guys have a couple of fragrances that we'll talk about in a second, but what was like the first steps? it really getting back into, or was it really just kind of building awareness now or going after, like, how do you pitch it? Do you pitch it like first to fragrance and then you go into the celebrity or how does that work?

Isaac And Lillian (11:46.009)
So, okay, so this is not something we've talked about in quite some time actually. So the first product that we went to market with was in partnership with a YouTuber. And so, oh, I'm sorry, thank you for, oh no, okay, I you froze. And so I had this idea to...

reach out to, who at the time was the biggest YouTuber around. And I thought that there was an opportunity to make a fragrance, for him to enter into the fragrance world and for it to be meaningful business. So we reached out and there was interest after a lot of back and forth and just, you know, kind of holding our hands and showing them what the potential here could be. And it was with a YouTuber called David Dobrik.

And so we made the first project that we went to market with was with him. And we made two fragrances launched at the same time. And first was obviously getting the deal done and then learning more about what types of fragrances he was into. And then we developed two that were in line with sort of his vision.

And that included, you know, taking a trip to New York to the fragrance house and sitting with the perfumer and smelling raw ingredients and really getting, getting invested in it. long story short, it was quite successful, but two months into being in business, he got canceled and that almost derailed our entire business. I never spoke about this, but honestly, when, we

Ramon Vela (13:28.635)
Yeah.

you

Isaac And Lillian (13:36.921)
first got introduced to your podcast, I said, I think this is a really interesting story to tell. It really talks about the trial and tribulations that we've had to go through because he never talked about it. We really powered through it with the grace of God and a lot of... It's hard to talk about, but I felt like this...

Yeah, well, I mean, I think you're right. But Ramon, you also asked. Yeah. And, know, to say that that we didn't do this would be disingenuous. And so obviously, this is what we went to market with. What we learned, we learned a lot. It certainly proved our theory correct because there I mean, we still get emails about it saying, where can I find this?

you know, I love this fragrance so much and unfortunately there's none left. anyhow, that's the story and it really, we kept our heads down and we just cut as much as we could of our overhead and somehow made it to the next launch and obviously continued growing from there, from that point on.

Ramon Vela (15:00.471)
Mm-hmm. You know, and it's funny because nowadays, as compared to maybe, well, maybe in those days too, but it just feels there's a lot more potential problems, right? Like being canceled and whatnot and all this other stuff that you have to deal with, especially if you work with celebrities, you you never know what's gonna happen.

Isaac And Lillian (15:18.605)
Yeah, yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (15:24.279)
Yeah. It's here's, here's the trade off. you, it is volatile and it can explode at any second, no matter how much vetting you do, which of course we, we, we did our fair share. but there's things outside of your control. alternatively, you can build a brand from scratch, but that's going to be much more expensive because you have to spend on brand awareness and things like that.

Whereas if you work with somebody who already has a network or an art in following, sort of leapfrog over the competition and get there a little bit quicker, I guess.

Ramon Vela (16:04.507)
Yeah, yeah. No, I agree. mean, there's advantages and disadvantages, but there's a huge upside because of all those cost savings and sort of like the built in market already. Lillian, I know you have to leave pretty soon. What is like, how are you incorporating your skill set and your vision into this with these particular collaborations or with these collaborations and in particular,

Isaac And Lillian (16:15.481)
Exactly.

Ramon Vela (16:32.932)
with I think the one that you guys mentioned, the Cirque du one. Yeah. I'd love to hear a little bit of how you're incorporating your skill set in there too.

Isaac And Lillian (16:36.162)
Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (16:43.329)
I have a background in jewelry and I studied painting and studied art history and as a child I was fascinated by art history and once Flower Shop launched, with the first launch it was very, it wasn't super creative, it was just.

We had a design. It was what it should have been. There wasn't a lot of room for her to flex her muscles. And with Melanie Martinez, she's such a powerhouse with her vision that our job was to execute whatever she came up with and figuring out engineering. that's when I started to chime in with

Ramon Vela (17:13.041)
Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (17:32.094)
maybe I could help out with this. Maybe I could help out with that. There were certain things that I physically got reconstructed out of fabric with my own team stress because I also make gloves, you know, so we could photograph it. Just I started to dive in and help them with certain things.

and engineering with some of her projects and then, but that still we weren't really getting to create We were executing her vision, But when we got the call, well when he got the call for Cirque du Soleil, I was such a fan of the company and what they create and it's such a magical performance that I said we have to do this, this is such an amazing opportunity and that's when I really.

Ramon Vela (17:56.775)
Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (18:17.579)
injected myself as a creative force and I came up with like a 30 page mood board and Presented it to Isaac and I said this is this is what we have to do Yeah, well that that deal the way it happened Obviously they reached out and because of his history, right? And then but then they said in order for us to get this going We need to see what this could look like. So can you give us a mood board? So then Lillian got to work with the mood board we we

Ramon Vela (18:28.103)
He

Isaac And Lillian (18:46.505)
she put together two different sort of potential aesthetic worlds that it could go to and they picked their favorite and then they said all right now design basically they gave us her carte blanche to to design you know or at least suggest what we think it should look like and so well we i mean we collaborated he came up with a brilliant fragrance

with the fragrance house and then I just dove into books. We laid out all of our, all of my art books and he sat with the computer and I was literally, I had 50 pages open and.

We just wanted to create something really beautiful and special. you know, as someone who likes to buy antiques and vintage pieces, you know, there's something special when you open, there's an aura. And I just wanted us to recreate this special presence when you open the fragrance, almost like it's a time capsule. And that's when the colors became very specific and the paper became very specific and the cap had to be very heavy and

and everything there was an intention behind everything and we really didn't compromise in any way to make this vision come true. As she alluded earlier we pushed the launch because once you open up the fragrance and you're holding it you can your hand will sense that there's certain details on the inner sleeve of the box that are embossed and they're raised clouds yeah I just I wanted it to reflect like Victorian

Ramon Vela (20:06.023)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac And Lillian (20:27.769)
postcards turn of the century postcards that you know, you could find in a Parisian flea market that were just there was like little flowers that are raised that you could feel with your fingertips and I just wanted to recreate that and and Initially that element was left out in our prototype Everything else about it was perfect, but I freaked out I said no it has to be raised and he said we have to go to launch We're gonna miss Christmas. I'm sorry. This makes the biggest difference

Ramon Vela (20:29.391)
Mm.

Ramon Vela (20:40.081)
the

Ramon Vela (20:52.977)
You

Isaac And Lillian (20:57.503)
you have to feel this and and that's not I mean delayed everything but I agree that you know this is this is it's these details that people will come to appreciate and and and I guess know our company for right because we we our intention is obviously to to you know make the world smell better but but we want you to to be proud of

Ramon Vela (21:12.561)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac And Lillian (21:24.173)
holding and featuring our, and displaying our bottles on your vanity. And so that comes along with it. So I agreed it was important and we explained to Cirque du Soleil and then they, yeah, they agreed. And we just pushed it back a little bit.

Ramon Vela (21:29.82)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (21:43.365)
Hmm. Yeah. and you're absolutely right. mean, especially with something like that. And also with, with a company or a brand like Cirque du Soleil, you know, that is like so well known for, you know, for their discipline, for their work ethic, for their, for their performances. You know, everything has to be timed just perfectly. Everything has to be done perfectly.

You know, everyone has to be on top of their game. is, it's performative, it's art. It's all these different elements all, all into one. So yeah, I mean, it makes sense that, you know, whatever, whatever thing is, is going to be produced that is going to contain their name.

as well should have all those elements in it as well. So I can imagine why they would be okay with it. You know, making sure that it had this. It's important, right? It's definitely important. Plus it also just showcases your guys' ability to create a vision and to see it through and execute it and make sure that all the details are in there and so forth.

Isaac And Lillian (22:40.419)
Thank

Ramon Vela (22:59.067)
I think people really care about that, especially if they're gonna have a fragrance, if they're gonna have something that, know, and like a lot of fragrance bottles, mean, there really are not, it's not just some glass bottle with liquid in it. It's really kind of a work of art. It's kind of something that you're proud to have on your bedroom, you know.

whatever, you know, like table or whatever, or your bathroom or whatever, is really something that people want to showcase. It's not something you hide. So yeah, I love that. in terms of the Circus Lee, give us the website just to make sure that we have that so people can take a look at that.

Isaac And Lillian (23:36.557)
Yeah. Sure. It's Parfum, Cirque du Soleil dot com. And I'm pronouncing it as an American. P-A-R-F-U-M C-I-R-Q-U-E D-U-S-O-L-I-E-L dot com.

Ramon Vela (23:44.282)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (23:55.508)
And there's also an Instagram to that as well. Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (23:58.773)
It's the same. It's just instagram.com slash at or however the URL is, but at performance.

Ramon Vela (24:07.163)
Yeah. And so we're going to have those links on our podcast description so people can find that easy. But yeah, it looks beautiful and we'll go over the website in a second again. But I wanted to make sure. So, so what have been the challenges in building this new, the new sort of like the, the, the Flower Shop, has it been finding the opportunities? Has it been executing the opportunities? Has it been?

maybe you choosing the right opportunities.

Isaac And Lillian (24:39.555)
Yeah, I mean, the reality, I guess, of being a business owner, and I'm sure you hear this all the time, is that the challenges are ever-changing, and any random day there's something new that comes up, and you have to put out that fire. So for us, I just have a history of identifying the right people, or brands, people, what have you.

where I think it would translate into the world of fragrance. So that's never really an issue and typically, know, this might sound degotistical, but who we want to work with, we end up, you know, being able to work with them because of the history of success. So that's not necessarily a challenge.

like any business sometimes cashflow can be an issue because of delays or whatever you budget your year a certain way and then there are delays and you have to figure that out. Most recently tariffs were an issue. Anything can go wrong and it will go wrong and you have to figure out how to fix it. But I don't know if that's a good answer to your question but it's at any given time it's something else and we have to figure it out.

Ramon Vela (25:41.799)
He

Ramon Vela (25:50.119)
you

Ramon Vela (25:56.229)
Yeah, well, I mean, and that's the reality of it. There's so much so many different things. And we have had obviously some things that have that are different, you know, like the pandemic was one, right? We didn't know we can complain for that. And then the tariffs, I don't think anyone really planned for them to be the way they are. And also the uncertainty. There's obviously uncertainty to a certain degree, though, I kind of feel like

Isaac And Lillian (26:13.08)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (26:25.467)
There's a couple of elements around these things that Flower Shop does with these celebrities that, mean, I might be wrong. I mean, there's nothing, I guess that's a hundred percent like recession proof or anything like that, pandemic proof, but it feels like there's a couple of things that help with these is that one is the power and the allure of the celebrity, right? That can be powerful. And even during slower economic times and so forth,

Isaac And Lillian (26:36.793)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (26:55.461)
people still want that stuff, right? They still want it. And I don't know, I would just imagine that there's an advantage to doing what you're doing even during difficult times.

Isaac And Lillian (27:06.487)
Yeah, I mean, what's interesting is that that advantage certainly does exist. For some reason, it's become less sexy to the venture capitalists. They're prioritizing brands being built from scratch now. But the one thing that took us by surprise really is that the industry kept climbing during the pandemic and post the pandemic.

Ramon Vela (27:18.193)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac And Lillian (27:32.705)
you know, I would assume because it's not, it's not a necessity, right? Like they like to say that liquor alcohol is, is, you know, that that'll always be there. Recession proof. But fragrance, I mean, I would guess, yeah, I would guess that that would be the first thing that people say, okay, you know what, I'm not going to spend on this now, but

Ramon Vela (27:41.274)
you

Isaac And Lillian (27:57.091)
But I think people want... became a sense of comfort. Yeah. It really, between candles and just smelling good.

I think a lot of psychological research was done during COVID and scents that are calming and soothing and anxiety reducing. No, there's all of that with specific scents, but then there's just the general notion of, there's a transportive quality of fragrance. It takes you somewhere. And then you're receiving something in the mail that you're looking forward to. It's not a bill. And so when you're trapped at home, it literally does help you.

Get away from it all escape exactly so so but that but that's not something I would have bet on I that that took us by surprise

Ramon Vela (28:36.103)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (28:43.493)
Yeah, well, I mean, I have heard people tell me that that you could escape into the more luxury market, which has a little bit more like continues to have more purchasing power in that. And that could be it too. Right. Because these I would imagine these these fragrances are not necessarily cheap. They're they're more of an expensive side.

But I mean, you combine what you said with the celebrity and then it's seen as a luxury product. People don't necessarily, I mean, they can, I guess, depending on what type of the product is, but don't they, people kind of expect a good fragrance to be, you know, to be priced a little higher.

Isaac And Lillian (29:28.313)
Yeah, I mean, it really, the positioning of it, it depends on, I guess, what's in it, right? And where it's coming from. Certainly you can make, you can find fragrances for under $10 and I don't really know what's in it, but yeah. Yeah, I mean, for us, it's, you we...

Ramon Vela (29:48.758)
you

Isaac And Lillian (29:54.393)
We try to put a lot into the product, obviously into the design and everything so you can see and feel what you're paying for. And then obviously in the actual scent itself, we prioritize great ingredients and more of them, right? So a higher oil concentration, which impacts the price.

Ramon Vela (30:19.239)
Well, know, there's, it really doesn't surprise me because I've talked to different folks. mean, recent most recently in the non alcoholic space. You know, a of those people are not just not just building a drink without alcohol. They're building a drink that has all the sophistication and, you know, and, you know, elements.

that a really good crafted spirit or cocktail or whatever might have, even to the point where they choose ingredients, spices that give you that little burn like the kind you have when you drink a scotch or something like that, or all these different things. It's a real craft, basically. And I kind of see that as fragrance too, because as you guys alluded to, fragrance has the ability to not only transport you to a different place,

Isaac And Lillian (31:00.717)
Hello.

Ramon Vela (31:16.933)
It has the ability to transport you into a different mood, but also to a different time. You know, because there's fragrances that just like take you back to your childhood, right? And it's just.

Isaac And Lillian (31:23.641)
Yeah, definitely. We've had people unbox and smell Cirque du Soleil. I I this is happening to different situations, but someone started crying.

when they smelt the fragrance because it took them back to memory. that was a really beautiful moment. Yeah. The nostalgia element, specifically with the Cirque du Soleil perfume, kind of took us by surprise. We were designing it with all of those things in mind, but...

in terms of being referential, but I didn't think that it would take people to their childhood, which it did, and watching those videos was really, really touching. My time is up. Sorry. Pause, sorry. I'm so sorry for having to leave. This is so much fun, but Isaac will take over. I hope I gave enough.

Ramon Vela (32:09.967)
Is your time? Okay, pause.

Ramon Vela (32:22.703)
No, you did great. No, you did fantastic. I'm sorry you have to leave, but no, no, you got to do what you got to do.

Isaac And Lillian (32:26.711)
I'm so sorry. I honestly if there wasn't a flight I had to get this on time. Yeah. Hopefully we could do a round two. Okay, so he'll take over. He's got a lot of interesting stories. Thank you so much. I really am very grateful for this. Thank you. I'm just gonna run back here so I don't walk around. I'll I'll let you know when when she leaves them.

Ramon Vela (32:34.789)
Yeah, no, you guys definitely always welcome back.

Ramon Vela (32:42.789)
No, you're very welcome. Thank you.

Ramon Vela (32:55.911)
Sure.

Isaac And Lillian (32:56.553)
there's going to be a little couple more foot stomps and okay bye bye good luck thank you yeah

Ramon Vela (33:00.486)
That's all right.

Ramon Vela (33:09.187)
Okay, so let me just count us back in here again. So it's

Ramon Vela (33:17.575)
We're good? Okay. Unpause one, two, three. Yeah, I mean, I get it in terms of transforming. I remember I learned this lesson once or had it personally. I was walking down the street one day. My dad died when I was like 14 years old. And I remember one day I was walking down the street. This was just a few years ago, maybe four or five years ago.

And as I passed somebody on the street, like it was just people walking by, and as I passed somebody, I got a whiff of the aftershave he used to have.

And I remember immediately after I just passed them, like within seconds, was beginning to tear up. Like it just hit me like a brick. Like someone hitting me with a brick, just, that fragrance hit me and I was just like, whoa. I was just like, I was brought back with all the emotions that, you know, that it comes with.

Isaac And Lillian (34:04.994)
Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (34:15.609)
I mean, I've seen that happen firsthand in meetings. It's really moving, it's really powerful. I mean, it's sad, of course, but it's the beautiful thing about fragrance.

Ramon Vela (34:31.203)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. talk to us a little bit about the other fragrance. So I know that Melanie Martinez had a little bit more, she had a lot more input, creative input into this. no, but I just, want to know a little bit more about that one as well, just so the audience understands what it is and so forth.

Isaac And Lillian (34:45.229)
Well, sorry, go ahead.

Isaac And Lillian (34:54.091)
Absolutely. So we partnered up with a singer called Melanie Martinez to make a new line of fragrances for her. And her most recent album is called Portals. She's very visually minded. And so there's a whole world that she created. And this sort of fragrance collection is inspired by the album. And it's very much

every step of the way was guided by her. mean, we would get drawings that she'd make and then we'd have to turn it into 3D models and engineer it and bring it to life. And so for her, currently there is a giant foot tall statue that opens up and there's four fragrances inside. And then there's a 13 piece candle collection that is one

one candle for every song on the album. So there's 13 different fragrances or scents, I should say. there's more that we're working on for her. She's got no shortage of imagination, just a constant spring of inspiration from her and ideas. And our job there is to bring that to life.

Ramon Vela (36:03.174)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac And Lillian (36:20.457)
Well, our job period is to bring it to life. And what we say in the very beginning is you could be as creative as you'd like. Going back to Paris Hilton, she said, it pink. So we did. And Cirque du Soleil said, what do you think it should look like? And so we put together a bunch of ideas. then everything was done, obviously, with their support and their approval.

Ramon Vela (36:33.283)
Okay.

Isaac And Lillian (36:48.234)
and Melanie likes to put pen to paper and make it happen. And so we're there to help to facilitate that sort of step into the scented world. And yeah.

Ramon Vela (37:00.729)
Mm-hmm. Well, Melanie Martinez, if it's the same person I'm thinking of, she's very, very creative and very sort of out there in her creativity. I think I've seen videos of her before. So I can imagine that. But that's actually the pretty cool thing about working with you. seems that your core skill set is helping people

bring their vision to life, whether it's them giving a little bit of input and you kind of extrapolating from that or having them have a lot of input and then you turning that into a reality. That seems to me like the thing that really kind of is your core strength and it's what people see and it's why you've had success with a lot of different celebrities, I think.

Isaac And Lillian (37:34.604)
Yes.

Isaac And Lillian (37:55.417)
Yeah, no, thank you. mean, thank you for saying that I certainly believe that to be true You know and and that that's kind of what we're we're there to do However creative you'd like to be we'd like to help you if we think you know, there's there's an opportunity here We're very comfortable Making this sort of taking the lion's share of the the creative work and then executing that and having you prove it or or

letting you run with it if that's your vision. I don't know, I think we prioritize these interesting designs because let's not forget now that the bulk of the business is done looking at the small screen and you cannot smell it just yet. That technology doesn't exist yet. So you need to make something at least first that's at least visually striking.

Ramon Vela (38:27.953)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (38:45.115)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (38:53.434)
Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (38:54.603)
I think because it needs to pop. Obviously, right, there's there's a few different things that might grab your attention, whether it's the brand affiliation or the celebrity affiliation, then there's the bottle, the packaging. But lastly, it's the scent. And so if the scent does not connect, then that one bottle that you bought is all that you'll ever sell. And so that's that's kind of what we say in the first sort of like preliminary introductory meeting.

your name, whoever you are, celebrity, brand, will get people, if you have that following, will get people to buy it once. But if we don't do our job right, that's all you're gonna sell. And this should really be a business that transcends your celebrity and is able to just, you know, kind of continue going. I mean, Elizabeth Taylor, White Diamonds is still a top seller at the end of every year. You know, so they're,

Ramon Vela (39:49.435)
Hmm.

Isaac And Lillian (39:53.507)
There should exist that potential for everyone.

Ramon Vela (39:56.551)
Yeah, and it seems to me though that I know that it takes the life of its own, but you also build upon the foundation of the emotions that are elicited by that particular person, right? That celebrity or whatnot. Because like, for instance, Elizabeth Taylor, know, lot of folks look at her and might think, you know, classic, right? Like a sophistication.

Isaac And Lillian (40:13.889)
Absolutely.

Ramon Vela (40:23.685)
you know, that type of stuff like old school, like, you know, like in her and her dresses when she was younger and all of that. Whereas Melanie Martinez, you know, her fans love her fans because they love her because she's might be out there a little bit. She might be very creative. She might be unafraid, you know, so from her, if I'm putting my shoes into, into the, like a fan of hers, I would.

I would look at that perfume or the scent or the fragrance, mean, or the candles and I would think, you know, I can't wait to see what the smells like. Like knowing what she's like, I want to know what this is going to be like. So like you take a little bit, I mean, I'm putting words into your mouth, but I'm just saying it feels like you take what they're about a little bit and that helps with...

Isaac And Lillian (41:02.648)
Yeah

Ramon Vela (41:16.003)
almost with the ability to sell without smelling it, right? Because in the old days, people used to spray that stuff on you at Nordstrom's or whatever, and you'd get these feelings. But I think people have to rely a little bit on what they feel and think about the particular celebrity.

Isaac And Lillian (41:32.429)
You froze. Can you hear me?

Isaac And Lillian (41:51.416)
too.

Ramon Vela (42:22.534)
Hey.

Isaac And Lillian (42:24.712)
Sorry, I got knocked off, I guess.

Ramon Vela (42:29.479)
Yeah, it must have been the internet. Well, okay, well, here's the good news though, it's being uploaded, right? So it's being uploaded and we're capturing it still. It just may not be as good, but we can continue now. So let me unpause and then we'll continue.

Isaac And Lillian (42:57.694)
Can I see, sorry, can I see the full screen? just wanna, I wanna see what...

Ramon Vela (43:02.855)
sure.

Isaac And Lillian (43:09.944)
Okay, I need to...

Isaac And Lillian (43:16.434)
Maybe I'll just go like this.

Isaac And Lillian (43:21.31)
Is that okay? Can you see me? Can you hear me?

Ramon Vela (43:29.147)
Yeah, if you can get in the middle of the screen as much as possible, I'm gonna open it up again. That would be best.

Isaac And Lillian (43:35.902)
you

Ramon Vela (43:40.977)
Yeah, right there is good.

Ramon Vela (43:45.819)
Yeah, no, no, no, it's okay. Whatever window that we're in, always try to stay like in the middle as much as possible. But no, no, don't worry. Everything will be fine. Like I said, records as we, it uploads as we record on your side as well as my side. So as long as we keep it open, we're fine.

Isaac And Lillian (43:45.832)
Sorry, sorry for the mess.

Ramon Vela (44:09.025)
And so we should be good. Even those times where it freezes a little bit, it's still recording on your end versus my end, even if I look like I freeze and so forth. So everything should be good.

Isaac And Lillian (44:17.982)
Okay, I just couldn't hear you anymore and so don't know what the question, where the question ended.

Ramon Vela (44:25.735)
I think I was commenting, let's see, let me just backtrack for a second in my mind.

Ramon Vela (44:37.607)
Hmm, I was talking about, I was mentioning something.

Ramon Vela (44:46.915)
I was talking about that the use of the celebrity, you can build upon what people think about the celebrity in terms of being able to sell over the web or direct to consumer because people have these expectations about them, Melanie Martinez, et cetera and so forth.

Let me count us back in just so I know from an editing point when to jump back in. And then I'll start off, I'll finish my thought and then I'll ask another question. all right, one, two, three. Unpause. One, two, three. Okay, so as I was just mentioning,

Isaac And Lillian (45:26.27)
Sure.

Ramon Vela (45:43.591)
I feel like it's something that helps you, obviously, in terms of being able to sell these, is people really having their opinion, what they think of this particular celebrity, and they can build upon that. So like for Melanie Martinez, people love her creativity, they love that she's sort of out there, that she's different. And so they see that, then so they expect, wow, I wonder what that...

fragrance is gonna smell like and they can't wait to see what this creativity is gonna be all about. And then even with Cirque du Soleil and all these others, so for me, it's like as you're looking, now with that said, I think if I was you, and again, I'm putting words in your mouth, so please correct me. When you're looking at new collaborations, are you looking at what does...

Isaac And Lillian (46:35.882)
That's okay.

Ramon Vela (46:42.083)
What do people think about this person? Like, what are the elements, the characteristics, the vibes, the feeling that people get? And can I create a fragrance around it?

Isaac And Lillian (46:55.505)
yeah.

yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are different metrics that people look at. Some are probably just primarily focused on the follower count and the engagement level and things like that. I think that's important. Sure. I'm not trying to diminish that, but I'm more concerned into what story am I going to tell because I don't want to repeat myself, right? I don't want to compete with, with another product that I've made that's out there. And I want to tell something interesting that's going to move you.

There are a lot of people that come into this space because, you know, there's a good profit margin. And so they think there's great potential to make a lot of money. if you're not telling an interesting story, it doesn't matter what the profit margin is going to be. People need to be able to connect to it. And so like you were saying with Melanie, she has a highly convicted audience.

Ramon Vela (47:46.395)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac And Lillian (47:56.56)
ardent supporters and our job is to try to make a product that resonates with them, that is reflective of all the things that she stands for. And it obviously helps that she's so creative and is a huge consumer and fan of fragrance. So there's a lot of interesting references that she has when we're making the fragrances. And so she's...

highly involved in every step of the way and that helps us. That helps us make something that will resonate with people. no, I was just going to say, but in the case, for example, of Cirque du Soleil, these are, again, highly creative people, but fragrance is new to them. So they leaned on us to help, you know, come up with a vision for them. And again, we had ideas and

Ramon Vela (48:33.509)
You know, and then, go ahead, I'm sorry.

Isaac And Lillian (48:54.566)
and they weighed in on it and we went to market with something that everyone was happy with. But that's the goal, like you said.

Ramon Vela (49:00.892)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (49:05.515)
Mm-hmm. And you know, it occurred to me that something you said earlier applies to what you just said right now, which is you want this to have a life of its own in some way. Like it's going to go beyond just the artist or the celebrity. You want it to have a life of its own. so based on simply on clicks, feels like it's very short term thinking.

Isaac And Lillian (49:30.834)
Yes.

Ramon Vela (49:31.045)
Because if you go back to the example that you said about Elizabeth Taylor, she's not a huge internet star, right? She's not a big TikTok star. She's not such and such. But the thing is that her legacy continues. People still think about her. People, even younger people who are into old movies or they love her symbol or love her pictures or whatever, you know, that continues. so...

you want to choose somebody who has the foundational things that you're looking for, not just the clicks, that might play a part of it, but they have that foundation, those characteristics, the thing that drives people to really love them. And then you create a fragrance around it and then that kind of takes the life of its own. But if you just focus on the clicks, then that's kind of short-term. don't know. At least that's I think. Yeah. That's fascinating.

Isaac And Lillian (50:07.09)
Mm-hmm.

Isaac And Lillian (50:21.534)
Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Ramon Vela (50:29.095)
I really impressed by your business because it feels like you have such an opportunity and you've had the success. So you have an ability to kind of be a little choosy there, I'm sure. But at the same time though, it's like you've had the success, but it just feels like there's a lot of opportunity to do what you're doing. I'm sure you might get more requests than when you're...

Isaac And Lillian (50:50.046)
Oh yeah. mean, we, we, we say no more than we say yes. Um, there's it's still, it's still a boutique, boutique company, you know, it's family run and, uh, we're just trying to give the brands we have the right attention and grow it to its potential. So we'll get there. We'll get, we'll make more. We we've got something else being cooked up right now. Um, and, the thing is,

you know, we're in a position that we can, you know, thank God we can do what we like, you know, work with people we admire. And so it's, it's going to be, it's, it's hard to say, well, here's an opportunity. It's going to make you a ton of money. It's, hard to say yes to that. mean, everyone would love a ton of money, but you have to put the same effort into that. Then you would this and to take my time away from

from the brands that I really enjoy working with just, it doesn't really make sense for me right now.

Ramon Vela (51:54.541)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I love that. And so we've been, everyone out there, we've been talking about, well, we've been talking about Flower Shop and their,

you know, their business and kind of the ins and outs of that as well as just sort of like their process and their mission and their purpose around doing this and how they like to do what they like to do and how they do it. And in particular, we've been talking about a couple of different perfumes or fragrances. One is a parfum, parfum circus soleil, and the other one is the porto parfums.

if I'm saying that correctly. And we're going to have the links to those, both the websites as well as the Instagram or the IG links as well. And then we'll have other links that are relevant. But is there anything that you have that you want to leave with the audience that you want to mention to maybe potential...

people out there looking for, know, celebrities or whatnot, because I kind of feel like if I'm listening to you, this is both helpful to a consumer, but it's also helpful to learn about these fragrances, but it's also helpful for someone who wants to do business with you to kind of see how you operate, like you're operating standards and systems and the way you think.

Isaac And Lillian (53:22.108)
Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know, I mean, I think that the, I guess the takeaway of a Flower Shop and what makes us different is that attention to detail that Lillian was speaking about at first and sort of kind of, we've been mentioning it throughout this whole thing, but like here, you take a look, this is what I mentioned. This is the product for Melanie, Portals Parfum. And so,

Ramon Vela (53:49.371)
Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (53:52.21)
This is the character that she's created for herself for the last record. And I don't know any other company that would say, okay, yeah, let's make a foot tall. It's bigger than my head. Let's make a foot tall statue and sell that. It doesn't fit on any counter in any store. So you can't go to retail with it. It's incredibly expensive to make. There's I think eight different molds that we had to open up just to do it. And then...

Ramon Vela (54:03.557)
Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (54:20.914)
you you open it up and there's four fragrances inside of it. it's but but you know, it's it's what gets us out of bed in the morning. It's what makes us really excited to be in this business to do something that's a little bit a little bit out there a little bit different. And again, just to kind of hark back to what my wife what Lilian was saying, we're inspired by things from 100 years ago. Like if you look at

the bottles of Schiaparelli and the work Salvador Dali has done. These are all really beautiful, intricate things that people were doing almost 100 years ago. And somewhere along the way, we kind of lost the plot and you started to do things that didn't cost as much to make and you didn't think it was that necessary. then there was a more recent trend is to make perfume bottles that

are all uniform. So like one brand will have the same bottle across, you know, multiple different fragrances. And it's just the title that changes. And there's something beautiful to that uniformity. And I'm not saying we're never going to do something like that. But we want to make even if it's that that one item that's repeated, we want to make that interesting in itself, right? And obviously, I'm jumping around here, but there's a benefit to that because

Ramon Vela (55:23.077)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (55:41.905)
Thank

Isaac And Lillian (55:47.538)
You save on the economies of scale and that's important. But at the same time, you know, if you strictly do that, then you don't get to do something like this. you know, I guess that's, that's, that's the takeaway. That's the last thing that we should, we should say about Flower Shop.

Ramon Vela (56:05.861)
Yeah, well, I mean, and I would just add kind of just from just a restater summarize what we said earlier is that, you know, it feels to me like you have the ability to execute on the vision, whether it's a vision that.

where you get a little bit of help. Like you said, Paris Hilton says, hey, I want something pink. So you kind of create something like that. Or you work with someone who really is hands on and gives you drawings like Melanie Martinez, which by the way, like that, now that you showed me that I'm like, know that the one, the person I was thinking in my head, that's the woman I remember. I've seen her videos before. They're really unique. and so, and her fans expect that, right? Because

Isaac And Lillian (56:26.002)
Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (56:38.206)
It's her. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Isaac And Lillian (56:47.527)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (56:47.995)
What you want is like, want to build upon their vision, which also built upon how their fans think and feel about them, about that person and how that person makes them feel. And then you incorporate all of that. It's very artistic when you think about it. It's so artistic. You put it all together and you, you create something that is not only going to be something that is very connected to them, but also something that

kind of takes a life of its own. And that's incredible. Like I said, like there's a, I'm sure competitors pop up, but very few people will have the ability to take all of those different elements and put them together the way that you guys have. So I'm really impressed. I, yeah, I love it too because there's an artistic quality to all of this. It's like, it's not just about the product, which

Isaac And Lillian (57:33.662)
Thank you. Appreciate that.

Ramon Vela (57:46.151)
You do. mean, you have this product, you have the fragrance background and the knowledge to go to the fragrance houses and figuring out what all the different things that you could choose and put and mix together. But it's also taking that vision and that creativity and pulling from Dolly and all these other artists from the past and putting it together. mean, to me, that's a pretty cool business. mean, it's a business, but it's almost like an art form. You know what mean?

Isaac And Lillian (58:06.878)
Yeah.

next.

Yeah, I mean, you know, we, we, do need to make money. do have investors. We that that's, that's the name of the game, but if it doesn't sort of scratch that creative itch, then we rather not do it.

Ramon Vela (58:28.891)
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I'm very impressed. I love this. So I know you have a business to run, so I want to be respectful of your time. And I'll let you guys go right now. But thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks. This has been a great conversation. I just wish we had a little bit more time with Lillian. But you guys are always welcome back. You guys are always welcome back in the future.

Isaac And Lillian (58:33.352)
Thanks.

Isaac And Lillian (58:49.768)
Yeah, we'll have to get her back. Yeah.

Well, you know, at the same time, so she's she's the co founder, creative director for Flower Shop, but she's still a jewelry designer. She has her own line under her name, Lillian Shalom. And this was a custom piece that she made where the celebrity client, she was supposed to deliver it earlier in the day before our interview. And then, of course, last minute, they asked her to switch it. And so sorry to have to pull that on.

Ramon Vela (59:19.055)
no, it's okay. Hey, I always tell people that in the podcast, the way I view it, it's always family, family first, business second, podcast last. So I'm always, I'm good with that. Cause that's the way I approach it too. But, but this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for being on the show. You guys are alumni. guys are welcome back anytime you guys have a new, new products to launch, you guys can always just.

Isaac And Lillian (59:28.728)
careful.

Yeah. Thanks, man. Thank you. Absolutely.

Ramon Vela (59:44.421)
ring me up and then have you guys come back and do an update. We do that all the time with brands. Yeah, and then I'll make sure everyone out there, we've just had Isaac LaCatch and Lilian Shalom. Lilian had to, as we just mentioned, had to take off. Both co-founders of Flower Shop. We're gonna have the links, not only to the two fragrances that we talked about, but also to Flower Shop, the parent company of these different products.

Isaac And Lillian (59:47.472)
Okay, we look forward to it. We'll do that for sure. Thank you.

Ramon Vela (01:00:13.477)
And then we'll also include the link to what Lilian is doing as well in her jewelry, if that's okay. We'll make sure to put that all in the podcast description so you can find it. And that podcast description, you can find on Apple, Spotify, pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts, simply type in the story of a brand show and you should be able to find it. And I highly recommend you guys go take a look at these websites. They are very interesting and you get a lot of information.

Isaac And Lillian (01:00:19.965)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (01:00:42.117)
And you want to see the products because I think though we've been talking a lot about, you know, the process of creating this, but you want to see the finished product. So definitely go and visit the website. I think you owe it to yourself. Have you been listening to this to take a look at those things? Beyond that, everyone stay safe, stay sane, stay healthy. And one last thing, we've all been going through a lot of stuff the last few years with the pandemic and

elections and geopolitical wars and you know the economy and tariffs whatever all of that stuff it's take it just takes it can take a toll on you and on different people around around you so let's just remember that we're all going through something and if we can do that and we can just be a little kinder to each other i know we can make this human experience a better one beyond that thank you for listening to another episode of the story of a brand