EvolveTogether - Do Good Every Day

Ramon Vela (00:20.679)
Welcome back everyone. This is Ramon Vela and we have an amazing show today. I have with me Cynthia Sakai, who is founder and CEO of Evolve Together. Welcome to the show.

Cynthia Sakai (00:38.702)
Thank you so much for having me today.

Ramon Vela (00:41.553)
Well, I appreciate you making time and you're building a business. So obviously you're an incredibly busy person. So I really, really truly appreciate you making a little time and allowing me to get to know you and our audience to get to know you. And again, just so grateful to have you on the show.

Cynthia Sakai (00:59.918)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (01:01.531)
Well, we were talking beforehand, a little bit before as we were preparing about how all the people that you, well, you know a lot of the people that we've had on this show. So I appreciate your candor on that. And I love the fact that, you know, we're kind of connected sort of indirectly through a lot of our relationships. And so I appreciate it. I'm glad I didn't know that, but I'm glad that now.

You're on that list and you can commensurate with your other founders that you know and let them know we've been on the show together.

Cynthia Sakai (01:36.106)
I love that.

Ramon Vela (01:37.831)
So I am a big believer that, know, well, of a couple of things here is that it's very easy for consumers to see products on the market, on the shelf, online, and simply think it's some faithless corporation. And so it's easy for them to say that because they don't really know the people behind the scenes. They don't really know what's involved. And so what I like to do on this show is

bring this whole conversation down to a very personal level and really help the audience and these potential consumers know more about the people behind the scenes and realize that there's real people who care deeply about the product, about the ingredients, about the formulations, and people who bleed sweat and tear over bringing this product to market. And one way of getting to know someone

is by asking what you're grateful for. And that's my big sort of opening question, which is a gratitude question. Plus, I just think gratitude is a great way to relieve stress and anxiety. And it's something that's always available for people to use when they're feeling that way. I have a gratitude meditation that I do. I've developed it over 10 years and I use it every day. And it's something that's helped me get through some very dark times. So as a second note, if you're feeling stressed out,

try some gratitude, whether you journal, pray, meditate, whatever you do, it's very, very helpful. But with all of that said, Cynthia, I'd love to get to know you by asking you this question. Share a moment or memory when someone did something for you that just made you feel grateful because it meant that they believed in you, your vision, or your potential.

Cynthia Sakai (03:25.016)
Gosh, thank you. I really thought about this question for a couple days and I think like every founder, you're like, how about this, how about this? And ultimately this is the one that really stood out to me. It has actually nothing to do, but everything to do with what I do today. When I was growing up, I spent my summers in Japan with my grandmother and my family.

Ramon Vela (03:34.238)
And, you know, I think, like, everything.

Cynthia Sakai (03:54.026)
in Japan and I was five and it was the first time that I actually was going to be spending my Christmas in Japan. in Japan it is Christmas is not one of those major holidays. Christmas is more of a commercial holiday. New Year's is something that is very much celebrated in our culture.

And my grandma knew that Christmas to me was very important, being born and raised in the United States. And I was all about reindeers and Santa Claus and of course the Christmas presents. And I woke up on, and it kind of brings tears to my eyes, but I woke up on Christmas day with the most beautiful Christmas tree, with presents under the Christmas tree,

with reindeers and all the Christmas things that you could possibly imagine. And I have no idea how my grandmother actually found any of these things without the internet, but she researched it all, found it, and I think it's always taught me that if you care about something enough, anything is possible. And yeah, I'm very grateful to her. So, that was good.

Ramon Vela (05:13.86)
Wow, I love that. And that's such a great memory to have. have you ever mentioned that to her now? Or is she still with us?

Cynthia Sakai (05:25.71)
Unfortunately, she passed in January, but she was 101. So, and I don't know, Ramon, that's a great question. It was so memorable to me, but now that I'm thinking about it, I don't know if I ever thanked her for it. So no one's ever asked me that, but I wish I would have.

Ramon Vela (05:28.3)
okay.

Wow.

Ramon Vela (05:50.064)
moment.

Well, know, and I, my condolences for her, for you, you, her, but I'm sure that she knew how much you loved her and you knew, you you're grateful for all the things she's done for you, I'm sure. But this is one of those memories where, I don't know if you have siblings or you have other relatives that you can, you talk to about this, but this is one of those times.

memories that when you're sitting around a table and you're remembering her, that you can bring this up. And by remembering her, you know, she kind of lives on a little bit, you know? And I think that's a beautiful memory to mention about her. I mean, I've had my grandmother and my mom pass away too. And every now and then when I get together with my brother and sisters, sometimes we tell stories about, hey, do you remember when...

Cynthia Sakai (06:23.512)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (06:47.78)
she used to do this, she used to do that, or she used to do this. And I don't know, I just always feel like if you remember them and you bring these memories up in some way that kind of helps for them to live on in our lives. So anyhow, I think that's a beautiful memory to have.

Cynthia Sakai (07:06.294)
Yeah, she was an incredible person.

Ramon Vela (07:09.412)
Yeah. It's so funny how you said, don't know how she does this without the internet, you know, because, you know, there was a time when we didn't have the internet.

Cynthia Sakai (07:15.342)
you

I don't know like how did she Google like the must haves for Christmas, know, just wasn't a thing back then and it wasn't actually as Commercialized it is today in Japan. It was a very small little section of probably trees and this and that so Yeah, she she deeply cared and she made it happen

Ramon Vela (07:29.062)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (07:39.271)
Yeah. Well, it reminded me of like, was trying to explain to my kids that when I was young, like in grammar school, and I think like partly through high school, the libraries used to have the Dewey Decimal System. And so we didn't have like, not every home had a computer. And so we had to like go to the library and the Dewey Decimal System, you actually had to learn it in order to use it the most effectively.

Cynthia Sakai (07:54.082)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (08:06.128)
So you had to like go through those little cards in the library and they were, they're like, would it like, we just Google everything, right? And then like, and I'm like, there was no Google. You had to actually look at all this stuff. Obviously it's but anyhow, no, this is fantastic. Thank you for, mentioning that. And, and that this is something by the way, that not everyone always not everyone mentions. So I love it when you bring these personal memories because they're so beautiful and it's just, it's, it's a.

Cynthia Sakai (08:09.665)
my gosh, I remember those.

Ramon Vela (08:36.166)
It's just such a great reminder about people and the people in our lives. So let's start off with, you and I were talking a little bit about your background. What I really would like to know is how did Evolve Together start? Like where did the kernel of the idea, the concept start? And where were you? Like, what were you doing?

during that time, like where were you working? What were you involved in? What was your life like? And how did this idea overpower you, overwhelm you to the point where you felt like you had to execute on this idea?

Cynthia Sakai (09:22.19)
It was 2020 in New York City, two weeks after the pandemic and lockdown. it was a very chaotic time.

I, at that time, I owned a jewelry company called Vita Fede. I had my entire team with me. I'm part of the CFDA as an American designer. And that's sort of been my sort of background in my entire life has been in design and in fashion and the pandemic hit and we were all in New York City and we kind of all looked at each other and said, okay, what are we all going to do? And I think one of the things that we really said was,

we really wanted to help and we wanted to help our community and So very very early on I had a friend that gave me a pack of masks about a hundred masks from Shanghai we were opening a store in in Shanghai with the jewelry company and He had just sent it as sort of a I know that there's not a lot of masks in New York and just you know sending you love and hope everything's okay and at that time

I had called him back and said, you know, are you able to get more of these masks? Because they were medical grade masks and He said sure, you know, my friends family owns a PPE factory. said great We really want to procure masks for New York City the hospitals frontline workers Can we get more so it was literally a week after lockdown. We were procuring these masks for New York City and hospitals and and

I was about the first three weeks into the pandemic and then quickly realized that there was no medical grade masks for consumers. when I was designing and I founded Vita Fede, the jewelry company, I always really loved the wellness space. I really loved the beauty space. know, I think as founders and as creators, we're always sort of thinking about things we want to create. And some of them come to fruition, some of them don't. But like you have kernels of ideas.

Cynthia Sakai (11:37.851)
throughout and you're like gosh like I would love to be in the food space or I'd love to do this and I think like beauty and wellness being Japanese I've always really loved but I've never been a believer of just creating another brand or another product just to create it because I think there's just too much of everything out there and I want things to be really intentional and thoughtful so I was in the back of my head

always and when this happened we really got together with our team and said you know we can really make a difference during this time and it was actually the first time I was really scared being Japanese and being Asian American in

Just in general, it was a time when I would have to wear a hoodie just to go across the street in New York City. And there was a lot of stigma around masks in general, because if you were Asian and you could only see my eyes and see a mask, you were targeted on the street. And sort of all these things were, you know, between just all of these, all of this was happening. was protests happening and so much. And we said, you know, let's make the first

medical grade masks for consumers. And that was our first product and we really started it because for so many reasons we wanted to start a company that would help people. We wanted to start a company that would actually be a bridge and people can come together. So when you see the first masks that we ever did, it'll say evolve together on it because it wasn't the name of the company. It was really how do we evolve together as people.

Ramon Vela (13:22.0)
Mm-hmm.

Cynthia Sakai (13:22.282)
And then you'll see coordinates on every product and it's to symbolize that we're all connected no matter race, gender or where we live.

And then we made them these great sort of customized fashion colors so that you wouldn't have stigma around wearing the mask. It was just an accessory. And then we wanted it to be high performing. So it was 98 % BFE and PFE. We'd loosen the ear loops. We made it softer. And that was our first daily essentials for the company. We sold about 50 million units of that product.

Ramon Vela (13:31.078)
you

Cynthia Sakai (13:58.319)
And then from there, we really, think what makes us different in that time is that we were not a PPE company that pivoted. We really started off as how do we create a brand for humans? What are the products that everybody uses? And that's how we came up with all of our other products.

Ramon Vela (14:20.198)
And maybe it might be helpful for you to kind of give us a thousand foot overview of how the company has evolved today and no pun intended.

Cynthia Sakai (14:33.806)
But we're at give or at a few times. Gosh, know, it's interesting because the company, think businesses are always evolving, but I think our roots and our core has always stayed the same. We've always wanted to create a company that was more than just products. We really wanted to create something that

was better for humans. And we do that through products that are high performing, that are clean, that are really intentionally created to make somebody's lives better and make them feel good when they're using our products. to me, the product mix maybe has changed or things like that, but the ethos of the brand has always stayed the same.

Ramon Vela (15:22.561)
And so walk us through, you know, once the pandemic has died down. that was, but I guess it was hard because it kind of died down slowly. Like it just kind of just slowly started opening. And I guess that was like, what, 2023 when it was kind of more or less coming back to normal or towards around that time, maybe I guess at the end of 23. By that time,

What new products or what different type of products did you guys start creating? And what were some of the challenges back then? Like, did you sit down with your team and you thought, okay, we have this sort of like ethos that we want to keep, but we having brainstorming sessions as to like what new products, where else do we move to this or from here, where do we move, I guess?

Cynthia Sakai (16:16.196)
Yeah.

Well, there's, I feel like there is, there's always a lot of challenges, but during the pandemic, there was a lot of challenges. You know, we started creating new product almost six months into the pandemic. So we released our deodorant pretty quickly, our sanitizer. So again, it really wasn't that at 2023, we're like, oh my gosh, we have to pivot. We really wanted to create a brand for people. So it was just the idea. And I think that

the harder part of it was during the pandemic, it was really hard to get the raw materials or the packaging or assemble the products and actually have a marketing calendar or product lineup calendar. So we had five or six products that I was like, okay, I know I can do these better because I've always thought that having a lot of everything isn't something that I love. I wanted to create something, one of each one that was really great. So a hero skew for each

product versus one hero skew and then having product around that hero skew. So for us, we had four or five products that we thought we could make it better in the market. And it was just really R &D all of them. And depending on when they would be ready, we started to release them, which is very different when you're not in the pandemic. But at that time, you you just sort of had to do it all and see where it landed. So.

Ramon Vela (17:38.192)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (17:44.742)
You know, this might be a tangent here, but I'm curious because I know we'll probably talk about it at some point. What is more difficult in your mind, the COVID or the current tariff environment?

Cynthia Sakai (18:03.085)
I don't know if I look at things as it being difficult. I think that things are challenging, but I love the challenge and I love to figure it out. I don't know, guess I just, I don't really look at it that way, Ramon. I think it's just part of building a company and it's sort of an everyday, there's challenges, but yeah, I don't know. That's a great question.

Ramon Vela (18:30.64)
Well, feels like the pandemic, the pandemic was something that we, least that I don't know anyone who, who had the forethought to plan for it, right? Like we never, no one knew like, I mean, it'd been a hundred years since there had been pandemic like that in this country. So we, I mean, there was like, there was no planning for it already. At least not that I know of. Not most people didn't already have a plan for it. So I don't know. I kind of feel like it just kind of hit us.

And I think that swiftness of the virus and what happened and then the government reacting the way it all this stuff was just very fast, very quick, and it just felt like you're just abrupt. That's what it was. It's all abrupt. The terror thing is like we've had some time to kind of think about it and plan for it. And there's a lot of uncertainty with it still.

there is time to kind of think about it. And I kind of feel from that perspective, maybe the COVID was a little bit more difficult, but I mean, you're right. I mean, both of them are challenges. Both of them require for you to be adapt, to adapt, to move quickly, to think on your feet, figure it out, like you said. That would be my perspective. So I don't know if that makes sense to you or if that falls in line with what you were thinking.

But yeah, you're right. I mean, it's always full of challenges. So let me just make sure that the audience knows. If you want to take a look at what we're talking about, you can go to evolvetogether.com. Two words, evolvetogether.com. well, let's talk about some of those. So you were in the jewelry business. Now you're, I mean,

Cynthia Sakai (20:01.007)
It's serious. It's serious.

Ramon Vela (20:25.176)
I don't know how much similarities there are. There's obviously a creative side to it. There's the branding side of it, et cetera. Obviously the products are different. But were there any lessons that you, or what were the lessons that you took from your previous position as a jewelry maker and designer to creating these other products now?

Cynthia Sakai (20:48.879)
I think

jewelry is all about the details. They're very small products. It's all about the materials of the products and it's all about really the fine details of where the stone goes and the design and the size. And so I take very much that to what we do today and every detail matters whether it's the formulation or whether it is the packaging.

or how the experience of it or how it's lived with. So sorry.

Ramon Vela (21:28.614)
That's all right, pause.

Cynthia Sakai (21:31.031)
I'm on a podcast right now. It's okay. Yeah. So sorry. Life does happen. Life does happen. Thank you.

Ramon Vela (21:37.254)
It's okay. I can hear it just lightly in the background, it's yeah. Here, let me count us back in unpause 123 go.

Cynthia Sakai (21:48.335)
So I think attention to detail is something that has really been what I use for my jewelry to what we create today. And I'm very meticulous on everything from the formulation to the fragrance to the packaging to the experience to, because I think I may be a little crazy, but I do feel that when customers receive something or when I receive something,

feeling and there's that feeling that you get when you touch something and you're like, someone really cares, right? It's when somebody plates you a food at a restaurant, go, someone who plated that and made that really took their time to actually make that enjoyable or beautiful. And that's how I want our customers to feel every single time that they use our product.

Ramon Vela (22:43.91)
And I love this, you have a very minimalistic, I don't know if that's the right description, sort of a minimalistic look to the brand. And I love that. Walk us through what you see as the, I don't know if you would call it the ethos of the brand or the feeling, the...

the concept of the brand, how do you want people to see this? Do you want to, because I know that's very, like when I look at the brand, I think, okay, minimalist, and so I think clean. think, you know, I think not just clean, but just good ingredients, clean, good formulations.

That's what comes to mind right away when I look at your brand. But is that kind of what you want to project?

Cynthia Sakai (23:51.437)
That's great. mean, I always love to hear what we are projecting from just looking at our product. So thank you. You know, I think for us, we do things with so much thought that when we first thought about what we want

aesthetics to look like. We wanted it to be casual but sophisticated. We wanted the product to feel easy to be welcomed into your home.

We wanted to be something that it can accompany and be your companion So it's really easy to fit into your home into your aesthetics. The brand is for everyone. It's very gender neutral We wanted it to be something effortless that you didn't have to think about it wasn't fussy You didn't have to we weren't screaming at you. We weren't you know telling you you had to buy us It was just we were there and we were there creating the cleanest

highest performing products for you and your family. And I always, I think when I think about our minimal packaging, I think about how...

the world is today and how many options people have and there's so much noise through social and virality and all these things and I really want to create something that people just trust and they go okay I don't have to do all that I just know that this product is simple and it's the best out there and I trust it and it's not fussy like I want the best deodorant I want the best lip balm I want the best body wash but it's easy and I think there's so

Cynthia Sakai (25:33.843)
many hard things in the world today and so many difficult things people are going through that I want to create something that's not difficult for people and that just doesn't take so much

So much, I don't want the brand to take up so much space in people's lives. I want people to live their lives and be happy and have something that's accompanying that and then bring joy to their life when they use it. That makes sense.

Ramon Vela (26:01.861)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah, I mean, and I think I see that and that, you know, my lack of words and describing it now that I hear you say that and I think and I look at the products, I think, OK, I get it. I understand like that. That makes a lot of sense. Walk us through a little bit about what that design and you don't have to go through each like specifically through those, but

Maybe at a high level, talk about what is your philosophy because around like the formulations of this or, you know, or the ingredients. Because again, when I look at this, think minimalist, but I also look at, and I like the word you use, sophistication. I also think like there's, I also think clean. You know, I don't know if that's the right term, but I also think clean.

What does that philosophy look like when you're designing the formulations? I know you like to look at the details. What does some of that look like from an ingredient standpoint or a formulation standpoint?

Cynthia Sakai (27:15.277)
Yeah, that's a great question.

I can kind of walk you through a little bit about our sort of how we design. think when we think about formulation, I always first look at what's out in the market. I go, what's out in the market? You know, and I look at that. And then I look at all the things that I'm like, gosh, I wish this product I can't find that would do. So I make two lists. really make a list of what's out there. I make another list and I say, okay, what do I like about what's out

there, I make another list and I go, gosh, this is what I feel like is missing in that, that I love. And then I try to combine those two together. And then I say, okay, now that I've combined them together, how do we actually make this product work? And then how do we actually make it clean? Because I think a lot of products that work really well are not necessarily clean. And a lot of things that are clean don't necessarily work. And

For me, I don't want to choose one or the other. I'm not that customer as a consumer where I'm like, okay, it's clean so I can kind of smell, I'm okay with that. Like I don't wanna smell, right? But I also really wanna be clean. So I think that those two are really important for us.

I think for us being kind to the planet also is table stakes. And I think when we created this company and even today, I really think that being clean or having the best ingredients, having the cleanest ingredients for your entire family and also being mindful to the planet should be table stakes for a new brand. should be something that I'm hoping in five years from now, we're not having the conversation of how'd you make it clean or how'd you make it mindful to the planet. I think all of

Cynthia Sakai (29:08.473)
us as founders have the responsibility for creating companies today to move forward just to do better. And I think that's really important because I think that consumers deserve better. Consumers deserve products that are good for them and the family. The planet deserves us creating things that are not made out of virgin plastic. Like we just need to just get there. I think it's really, really important. So.

I definitely look at the company and I don't look at it as like we're clean or we're clean to the planet. we're, this is who we are. And I think that's really important to me.

Ramon Vela (29:49.766)
Mm hmm. Yeah. And unfortunately, you know, I think we've made some huge strides in that arena, but there's still a lot, a lot, a lot to go, a lot of room, a lot of space to go through. As I always talk to people or we talk about on the show is, you know, like a lot of manufacturing is not designed to be as sustainable as we'd like it.

A lot of formulators are not as, you know, as not as sustainable or, know, you know, I mean, the bottom line is that manufacturing is always geared towards, you know, creating the lowest cost per unit. And some of the times when you're trying to be cleaner or trying to do better ingredients, or you're trying to do better packaging, or you're trying to, know, there's always a give and take. Like, it's just very difficult to, to be that way because it can be cost prohibitive.

And if you're a young brand, then it's hard to pay for these things. And I think consumers should know that, that once a brand does have cleaner ingredients or has a better ingredient profile, that that brand chooses to go an extra mile because it does cost a little bit more to have those ingredients. And it's important. So like if you want those type of products, then you know,

you have to realize that it costs a little bit more. Something you said earlier, you know, like, as I was looking through your products and you can find it at EvolveTogether.com, EvolveTogether.com. You know, we're talking about clean and so forth. I noticed you guys have deodorants and that's one of the things that I learned early on in my interviews with people. To be honest with you,

Coming into this, I didn't know a lot about products, like per se, like all the different intricacies and what happens in terms of ingredients and why things are made the way they are. It's been an enlightening experience. And one thing I didn't know from a health perspective is how important what we put on our skin is. Like I had never put moisturizer on before interviewing some brands on this show.

Ramon Vela (32:16.421)
I didn't even, I mean, honestly, I didn't even know I needed to or that I should. And it was, it's been an enlightening experience, you know, especially with the moisturizer, but also like putting stuff on your skin, especially deodorants and within a lot of the more commercial, I don't know how you call it, more commercial deodorants that you kind of don't want a lot of stuff in your skin. So I know deodorants for instance are difficult to make clean and so forth because they're, you know.

Some people say, they don't work as well and so forth, but you have to look at also what you're putting into your body.

Cynthia Sakai (32:51.535)
100 % and I do think

You know, when I think about my company, I really think about how I live my life is exactly what shows up in the company. So when I think about what we have in our pantry, we eat whole foods, we don't eat processed foods, we don't eat any sugar. And so when I think about our formulation, that's the way I think about it as well. Like, how do we actually put good things

onto our body and how do we not only from an ingredients perspective but I loved how you said you you have your gratitude meditation because it's so important to

have that mental health and the feel good aspect of everything that you do. So if you look at all of our packaging, it says doing good every day. So all of our packaging has said that from the beginning of time, because it was a reminder to myself and a reminder to all of us that we can do good every day. And it doesn't have to be something big. It could be helping your neighbor or, you know, eating good or feeling good, or it can be just little things, but we can do good every day.

and those small actions every day add up to a lot of good. And if we can do it all together, we could even make a bigger impact. So I think that's how I really think about like what you're talking about, whether it's the ingredient part or even the way people experience the product. want, we spend a lot of time on the actual industrial design of that product, of the shape of the soap or the

Cynthia Sakai (34:39.333)
hand cream cap so it's not so small and it doesn't spill or the way somebody can open our sanitizer with one hand, you know, so it is very experienced and seamless for people.

Ramon Vela (34:54.597)
Wow, I love that. And I love that you bring that up. Industrial design is one of those things that as consumers, we don't really think about. Sometimes we feel it when it's not done correctly because there's always things where we think, you know, that toothbrush, why is it shaped this way? It feels uncomfortable. And then you find a toothbrush that's designed really, really well and you think, this is like part of my hand. This feels really intuitive and whatnot. Industrial design.

Cynthia Sakai (35:10.531)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (35:24.229)
It's so much around us in every product that we have, but it's not necessarily in the main importance for a lot of brands. And so we do find times where we find products that just don't feel quite right because of the way they're designed and the packaging or how they're shaped or whatnot. And so I love the fact that you're even thinking about that, which I think is really cool from a consumer standpoint. I love that aspect of it.

when I look at your products, I'm gonna look at them differently now, because now I'm gonna think, I wonder like, you know, why is that shaped there? So I love that. And you know, I was gonna ask you this before, but I don't know, I kind of feel like in some ways you may have answered this question, but I gave you an exercise question when we did our pre-interview. And I wanted to find out from you, as we're talking about, we're kind of on this topic, what is it about...

the brand that you want people to know about that's not really found on the website or on social media or your labels or whatnot, but it's something important to you that you're very proud of that may not necessarily get communicated out to the audience and to your consumers. I don't know, I've heard some stuff already from you that I think is like, wow, I love that. But I don't know, maybe just I want to ask you point blank.

Cynthia Sakai (36:43.663)
you

Cynthia Sakai (36:48.643)
Yeah, I really, I always come back to I really want people to feel good when they get our product. To me, what we do is all about the feeling. And it's something that you just can't put your finger on. But you go, like I feel cared for.

or like there's somebody somewhere behind this packaging that is looking out for me. And it's really important, I think especially today with the velocity of AI and with sort of the amount of consumer products that are just literally pushed on us through our phones and through every outlet possible that I just want people to not forget

feel like they're getting pushed to purchase something and then be regretful later. I want to be that brand that people are like, oh, I just like they just, they just think they feel good. Like, and that's what I want my son to be surrounded by. want my son to be surrounded by people that just make him feel good. So to me, why can't we create consumer products in the same way as having that?

person or people around us that makes you feel that way.

Ramon Vela (38:17.221)
Yeah, I like that. And that actually made me think of something else too, in that there's, I don't know, this is what popped into my head. don't know if this could be part of the equation that you were talking about, but there's so much noise out there in terms of different products, whether it's in the personal care space or health and wellness or whatever.

There's just a lot of noise and there's a lot of companies who, and I don't want to make this sound bad because I don't mean to be this way, but there's a lot of marketing companies out there who create products and these products may not always be the most efficacious, but they're great marketers and they just make it sound so good. And I've fallen for this too. I've bought products and I...

Cynthia Sakai (39:04.878)
I know.

Ramon Vela (39:10.135)
I'm like, I'm unhappy once I get them, because I think, this is crap. But they made it sound so good.

Cynthia Sakai (39:15.235)
Yeah. I mean, we really, I think being a small brand with less capital than some of these big brands that can really spend it on these flashy marketing things, it is something that, you know, I always call it, it's the purchase after 10 p.m. with your one hand.

Ramon Vela (39:42.191)
Mm-hmm.

Cynthia Sakai (39:42.253)
Right? You're like scrolling through Instagram, you buy it and then it gets here and you're like, my God, it's really bad. Right? And now you feel bad because not only you spent your money on it, but now it's wasteful because it's going in the trash and all of those things. But I think for us, it's challenging because the way that we're building brand in this company just inherently takes more time.

Ramon Vela (39:50.085)
Mm-hmm.

Cynthia Sakai (40:12.239)
And, but it's something that I really believe in, in my core.

is that if we stick to truly what we believe in and we can cut through the noise of it, because all of those brands that are very market first, not product first or human first, there's a shelf life to them. And I truly believe that. I think that the things that are good are great, are amazing, take time and takes patience. And so these companies may do, and God bless, they do hundreds of millions of dollars, but

you know, soon after they're no longer.

viable or available because that viral moment has ended or where do they go from here? I don't, I don't, and I think, I was having this conversation with the founder yesterday and I think it's all very personal, right? I think all of us are on this journey for a personal reason. And so some people might look at this and go, wow, it's really successful and hundreds of millions of dollars. It is successful, right? In some eyes. And I think, but for me, success is more about

about how I feel about something that I've put into the world and the meaning that I've put and that it actually means something when it's put into the world. So I would rather take the time, cut through the noise, be on the other side and have people go, really trust this company and my children use it, my grandchildren use it, my parents use it. And I think that's my personal journey and the sort of love that I have for what I'm doing today.

Ramon Vela (41:50.502)
Yeah. Well, and I can appreciate that. And I get it. I I think you're absolutely right because a lot of these companies that are great marketers or market first companies, many of them, frankly, are, again, I don't mean to make this sound bad because we're all a little bit opportunistic, but that's all they are is opportunistic in any cases. And so you're right.

let you know, hey, there's a trend happening here. Let's sell this version of this product, market the hell out of it, you know, make money and then move on to the next product or move on to the next trend. And that's what it is. And unfortunately, what ends up happening is that as consumers, we fall for this sometimes and then we feel like taking advantage of a little bit. And then it does make us a little more, I don't know,

with what I'm looking for. It makes us feel less hesitant to buy products in that area because we think, well, that one was crap. So now who knows what these others are going to look like. So in my mind, it just makes me want to do more research and read more reviews and figure, make sure that it is what it is. But which is, think is good from a consumer standpoint, but it makes it harder for companies like yours to do that. I want to talk about the product. I'm sorry, were you going to say something?

Cynthia Sakai (43:17.361)
no, I was going to say that my hope is that with our company that we can raise the expectation for consumers, especially in our country. think that our consumers deserve better in so many ways and I think our children deserve better. So that's definitely a hope of mine.

Ramon Vela (43:40.25)
Yeah, and I think so too. Yeah, unfortunately, you know, we have to deal with what the other stuff that comes in comes our way. I think that just means as consumers, we need to be more discerning. think it's the onus is on us as well, right? On us to do that. Just like you were talking about how like what you have in your pantry and this and that. I think as consumers, when we're buying products, we do have to be more discerning and

figure out what's the marketing of it, what's the real effectiveness of it. And it's hard sometimes, but yeah, I think it's on both sides. I wanna talk about some of the products and help people know where to start in the journey of your brand, but I do wanna ask you one more business question, and that is around the lessons learned.

Cynthia Sakai (44:13.967)
Good luck.

Cynthia Sakai (44:23.631)
Okay.

Ramon Vela (44:37.495)
You must have some one lesson to out there that you think is valuable for other founders to know. What would one or two of those would be?

Cynthia Sakai (44:50.073)
Well, that's a loaded question. feel like I learn lessons every day. I think the one that I always still go come back to is to trust your gut. I think you always just know. You know when you meet someone, you know when that product isn't right. You just know and you go, it's just not right.

And then I think as founders, we sometimes get a little tripped up and we look at maybe other brands that are doing really well and that that worked for them or.

we speak to our investors that and they go no you should do it this way but I think we all know and so I would say to really trust your gut and go back to why you're doing all of this.

Ramon Vela (45:46.006)
I love that. I'm just writing that down. This reminds me of a conversation I had with, think the brand was called Anyday and they're like a cookware brand. And she mentioned about conviction. And I think that's what it kind of boils down to in some ways is that at some point you have to have, you have to trust your gut enough.

and have that conviction, take information in, you know, and this is the hard part because part of you is like, you're taking all this information in from your investors or from other people, from your competitors and you're looking at what they're doing. And part of you is like, oh, you know, should I do it that way or should I follow this? Should I do exactly what they said? Or, you know, should I take this advice from, because everyone has advice, right? And at some point you have to just have the conviction to say,

you know, I think we need to do it this way or trust your gut and say, okay, I think we need to do it this way. I'm always in, I'm always looking for, can we break that process down so that someone else can learn how to do that? Because, and you started, you mentioned that you said, go, you know, you know, go back to what your why is, right? I think that's part of the process because it's, it's, it's very easy for a new founder or a new business owner.

to have self doubt. And so how do we get that conviction to basically think, okay, no, it really needs to be this way and here's why, like in my gut, here's why my gut is telling me this. So I don't know, does that make sense? It's more of a comment than a question, I guess.

Cynthia Sakai (47:36.131)
Yeah, I think so. think doubt is for new founders, late founders, every founder, every human. I don't know if it's a founder thing. I think it's just a human thing. You know, we're always, we're with so much happening in the world. You're just unsure sometimes. And you're like, I don't know which way to go. And, and yeah, I, I.

Ramon Vela (47:43.621)
Yeah.

Cynthia Sakai (48:01.869)
I definitely think the why is really important. I also think that especially in our industry and when it comes to sort of CPG brands, you get really stuck in and many conversations that I have of people saying, well, that brand did it that way. You got to do it that way. This is the only way because that's how it's, you know, that's how you're successful. That's how you exit. That's how you do this. And, and my thought has always been, well, why would I do something that someone's already

like someone's already did because they exist already, right? And we're trying to create something that hasn't existed already, but I think it becomes very difficult because when something hasn't actually fully succeeded or existed before, it's so easy for people to say, well, you haven't done it yet. So, you know, what are you talking about? You should just do it this way because that's been proven. And I think that's when things get really hard for founders and you feel very isolated.

Ramon Vela (48:53.359)
Hmm.

Cynthia Sakai (49:02.779)
Isolated because now you're on this island alone and you're like no no like my guts telling me this I want to be different I have a point of view and I'm gonna do it this way and you have everybody else that's like well hasn't worked yet so clearly you're like, know, you're not commercially viable you're you're not this and you're just and I and I think it's just how do you push through that and how do you take the advice and and still continue forward in your vision and keep people happy

and also, you know, take advice because, you know, some people have done things you haven't done and, you know, if you can take the advice and not make the wrong turn, that would be great too. So I think there's a lot of that and I don't know if...

I'm still learning that every day and I think for new founders, it's just something you experience. It's impossible to sit here and give every scenario you you doubted yourself. I think it's a whole journey that you go through and you just...

Ramon Vela (49:57.701)
Mm-hmm.

Cynthia Sakai (50:10.721)
Yeah, I think about like all the companies you create and all the things that you do is one journey. I've never, started my first company when I was 18 and I don't think I've ever looked at it as this chapter is over. I started a new one and another chapter. It's been sort of one long history and I've hopefully done better as I've learned. So hopefully.

Ramon Vela (50:33.529)
Yeah. Well, no, I love that answer. And, you know, that kind of reminds me of our interview with the Chums people is that they, actually specifically said that they got so much advice by like, you need to do it this way. And this is the way it's done. And this is how it's done in food and beverage, or, know, like in snack world and this and that. And they were just like, no, we don't like, this is not what we're going to do it. And, and, and he says that,

Everyone says there's a playbook, but in reality there really isn't a playbook. You know, there's only a playbook until someone does something differently and then, oh, well that works. So maybe we should try that now. And that's the hard part about being entrepreneurs. Like you have lots of people wanting to do a playbook, but the reality, there is no playbook. It's just trying new things that sometimes work, sometimes don't. And I think as an entrepreneur, I think you just have to be prepared for both.

and be able to figure out some mistakes are costly and hopefully you can get back. But the reality is that if we only play it safe, that way may not work either, right? Because things change. yeah, I love what you said before, which is go after your why, because I think that's...

that should be your North Star at all times is that why did we do this and why am I doing this? And that can help guide you, I think, to more or less the right direction. So I appreciate that, Cynthia. Let's talk about the, someone listening to this episode and thinking, I really love what she had to say about the idea of on the pantry and making sure that you have all the great food and

I love the idea of, of, know, the formulation that you mentioned. and I love the ideas that you mentioned about, you know, focusing, you know, having a focus on, on the industrial design and, and some of the other advice and things that you mentioned. And someone's saying, Hey, I want to try this product or I want to, I want to know more about this brand. So if we send them to the website, which is evolvetogether.com, where do you want them to start?

Ramon Vela (52:55.779)
with the brand.

Cynthia Sakai (52:57.347)
That's a great question. It's hard because there are all my babies, so it's hard to always choose one, but we...

I would say we make the best natural deodorant that actually works for so many reasons. Our natural deodorant, so all of our fragrances are custom to us. So I create the fragrances with our scent evaluator and perfumer. We're definitely fragrance led. So I think that's a great way to kind of figure out which fragrances are, you know, is your favorite. So we have Havana, which is our spicy wood. We have Monica.

which is our floral, which is more rose and wood. I always call it, it's not your grandma's rose. And we have Terra Mina, which is orange, blossom and jasmine. And we have Provence, which is our chamomile and lavender. So I think it's a great place to find your fragrance. I love our deodorant because it is aluminum free, baking soda free. It goes on more like a balm. So I always wanted to create

something that didn't feel like a drugstore deodorant. It was more of a beauty product and a part of your routine that you enjoyed. So it goes on balmy. It won't ruin your black clothes. Ramona, I'm looking at your black shirt and I'm like, okay, I'm not going to ruin your black shirt, which is really important because I felt like a lot of natural deodorants were leaving stains on my clothes, which I really disliked. So it goes on clear. It lasts all day. And it's just a really great product. comes at a large

Ramon Vela (54:17.253)
the

Cynthia Sakai (54:35.409)
size which is home use and it comes in a travel size. I think it's a great place to start because it's got, you know, it's clean, it's high-performing, it's got our fragrance, it's packaged in 65 % less plastic than our competitors. All of our Unicartons are also sugar cane waste and bamboo waste because we've planted 300,000 trees with our customers so far so the Unicarton is unique to our competitors.

as well. So I just think it's a nice representative, like representation of what we do. And then from there, you can really go and say, okay, I love this fragrance. Now I'm going to try I love our body cleanser. I our body cleanser is beautiful. It's, it's very unique to us. It's a creamy cleanser. So it's one of the only creamy cleansers in the market. So when you pump it, it looks like a lotion. So it's actually white. It's got 17 % butters and oils. So

it's almost like a clean cleanse. It's not sticky. It leaves you hydrated. It's skincare with a cleanse. I created it because again, my grandmother only used really creamy cleansers when I was in Japan, so it doesn't strip your skin. So that's why we created this cleanser. So it's a really nice journey to, you know, all of our products are created in the same vein and we don't want it to be stripping. want it to be good for

your entire family. We want the fragrance to be not too strong, but it's layerable or you can wear it alone. So I think you'll see through line and everything. And Ramon, we're launching one of my products that we've been working on for years now, which is our hand wash, our restorative hand wash is launching. And so I'm excited for everyone to try that product.

Ramon Vela (56:34.213)
When did that one launch?

Cynthia Sakai (56:36.355)
That's actually launching in a week from now. So it is launching after Labor Day. We're so excited. is such a simple product, but you use it every day. So we wanted to make it better than what was out there. So it's in glass, which is really important. I'm really into reducing micro plastics and nano plastics in our house. So in our house, we don't use any plastics. So it is in glass.

Ramon Vela (56:38.969)
okay, great.

Cynthia Sakai (57:06.289)
wanted to the formula where I had a really nice foam. It actually leaves your hands hydrated for 24 hours after use. It's got our beautiful fragrances in it. also comes in a refill because it drives me crazy when I have to throw out my hand wash bottles. And then all of the hand wash glass are all custom designed by us. So nothing's off the shelf. And then when you turn it

Ramon Vela (57:15.205)
you

Cynthia Sakai (57:36.209)
there is doing good every day etched into the bottle as really a reminder as you wash your hands that we can all do good together. So it's it's I love this product.

Ramon Vela (57:45.84)
Yeah. well, we can't wait. We'll make sure to to launch this episode during that time. And I noticed, too, by the way, just as an FYI to people out there. again, you go to evolvetogether.com is the website. I'm actually on the bestseller page and there's the order and discovery sets there. So you can try several of the different ones there.

and then, and or you can buy them individually. And just to kind of give everyone an idea. So they've got navigation buttons around body where you can buy the deodorant or the cleanser or the bar soap, the body cream, the hand cream, hand sanitizer, all of that. They've got products for the face, the cleanser, the lip balm. They've got sets that you can purchase. And they also talk about all the different scents that they have.

So you've got a lot of really great stuff on the website. There was one here that I was gonna mention here. I was gonna just say your bar soap dual, that sounds pretty great. It has the exfoliating, is that how you say it?

Cynthia Sakai (59:04.235)
exfoliating which is amazing it's coconut shell.

So you can use it every day. It's a coconut base, coconut shell. We actually created it so the soaps have round edges so you don't have to work it in and it's exactly the size to fit in the palm of your hand. So it's easy to maneuver. So I love that product. The lip balm is amazing. you're an avid lip balm user, the lip balm was created because I wanted to create a lip balm that felt like it was a lip balm in a tub where all tub lip balms are

Really soft and moisturizing and it actually sinks into your lips But stick lip balms were always hard and it felt like it sat on my lips So I wanted to create a tub in a stick. So the stick is this really soft buttery creamy Every day sort of in the morning at night or primer before a lipstick and it's a great product So I would definitely recommend that as a quick

as a pickup as well.

Ramon Vela (01:00:07.843)
Yeah, well, I love that. And by the way, I also love on your website how you have, when you hover over products, it shows like the different, some of the different ingredients there and the things that you have in there. I like that. That's kind of a cool little feature. Yeah, this is amazing. So this is great. So I highly recommend people go to the website and check this out.

And again, your website is also, I love it, very minimalistic, but you've got a lot of really great info on it. In terms of where people buy, is it only available on your website or are you in marketplaces or any retailers?

Cynthia Sakai (01:00:47.491)
Yep, so you can buy it at Credo, Blue Mercury, Air One, Nordstrom's, Goop, and we have some really great new retailers coming out in some hospitality locations with our hand washers.

Ramon Vela (01:01:04.235)
Right. And then of course, it's on your website, right? People can buy on your website. How about any of the marketplaces like Amazon, Walmart, anything like that?

Cynthia Sakai (01:01:13.069)
Yep, Amazon, are fully stocked on Amazon as well.

Ramon Vela (01:01:17.477)
Okay, fantastic. And then you have that new product launch that's coming out next week, which people should be on the lookout for as well. Anything else you want to mention about the website?

Cynthia Sakai (01:01:30.543)
Would love any feedback. We're always looking to improve so if anybody goes on the website and they're like, gosh I wish I had this feature. Ramon, please take note for us and let me know if there's anything we can do better for people.

Ramon Vela (01:01:46.31)
Yeah, definitely. Well, I really like it and I didn't go through all the navigation buttons, but you have a lot of really great info. Like I said, you have a discover section which talks about your story and about where to find a store and talks about the packaging and your tree planting and your awards and all sorts of other stuff. And then you've got a best sellers, which I was going through a second ago. Yeah, you've got a lot of really great stuff. And, but I love this.

in that the website is very much aligned with what we talked about. By the way, I love that image of the soap with the bubbles falling down the soap. That has the, you know, like when you have food, when you have pictures of food, sometimes it makes you hungry. Well, the soap with the bubbles running has an effect of like,

That looks cool. Like I want to touch that. I want to experience that. So maybe that that's the whole psychological point of that. But I still think.

Cynthia Sakai (01:02:48.865)
Revealing that you were gonna tell me that you made you want to go take a shower.

Ramon Vela (01:02:52.693)
Yeah, I mean, it looks interesting. So it's having a psychological effect. It's kind of like, I want to try that. I want to see that. But the website is very aligned with what you talked about. And I really, for me, when I look at a brand, I know I look at it a little bit more carefully than other people do, but I also look like for congruency. And based on what you said and what I see on the website, I feel like it's very congruent. And to me, actually, that's important because

You don't want a brand that talks a certain way, but then acts a different way. Do you know what mean? And I prefer to have a brand that, if they have a why and they speak a certain way, that it's kind of congruent. The same theme is congruent across the product line, but also on the website. for me, that's great. So kudos to you from my perspective. This has been a joy speaking with you. And I want to be respectful of your time.

And for everyone out there, again, go to EvolveTogether.com is the website. We're going to have that link on our podcast description, which you could find on Apple and Spotify and pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts. So we'll make sure to link that up. But this has been great, Cynthia. Any last words that you want to leave with the audience?

Cynthia Sakai (01:04:09.615)
I guess we can, I mean, would love to just end with...

Just being grateful, right? I think that was the first thing we started with is talking about gratitude and I think ending with gratitude of just, really grateful for you to have me on this podcast and you taking the time to do this for myself and for others and for others thinking about wanting to be or being founders and just grateful for people to try our product or our ready user products.

a lot of gratitude and just a lot of thank yous. So thank you Ramon.

Ramon Vela (01:04:50.053)
Oh, you're very welcome. It's always my pleasure. Like I said earlier on that I've been doing this for a long time now. This is our eighth season and we're like, I just released an episode today. So that makes it 1,337 episodes and counting. Yeah. Thank you. But I love what I do. I love these moments and I love featuring companies like yours. you are...

Cynthia Sakai (01:05:06.543)
It's crazy. It's amazing. Congratulations. That's so much work.

Ramon Vela (01:05:18.849)
you are what makes this so interesting for me, is meeting people like yourself and having these conversations and talking a little bit more deeply about the product and about your journey and about your brand and so forth. So I appreciate it. And thank you so much for, you know, trusting us to share your story, but also just sharing a little bit about, you know, how you feel about the brand and what it means to you, to our audience and to people listening. So thank you. Thank you back on that.

So this has been great. Everyone out there, we have just had Cynthia Sakai, founder and CEO of Evolve together. We're going to have that link, as I mentioned, on our podcast description, which you can find on Apple and Spotify and pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts. Beyond that, everyone, I really feel like you need to take a look at this brand. Go to the website, sign up for their newsletter. That way you keep up to date on their products or new products or product launch.

promotions, everything that they might have on there, you get to know what comes up first by signing up for their newsletter. And I would highly recommend you go checking out the brand. I think they really meet our tagline, which is products worth buying, brands worth supporting, and I think they're definitely worth supporting. So go check them out. Beyond that, everyone, stay safe, stay sane, stay healthy. And in this way, and then from that perspective, remember that your skin and what you put on it, the deodorants that you put on your body are actually

should be part of your health regimen because putting things that have a bunch of chemicals in it that then get inside your skin and inside your body through your skin, you really need to be aware of that and to be careful of that. And so it's really important what you put on your skin and what those ingredients are. So take a look at her products and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Beyond that, everyone, as I mentioned, we've been going through a lot of stuff.

Early on, I talked about gratitude and about hard times. Well, we've been going through a lot of stuff. We talked a little bit about the pandemic. We talked about, you know, other stuff, but we've had geopolitical wars in the last few years that are still ongoing. have politics. We have the economy. We have all sorts of craziness going on. Let's just do ourselves a favor and remember that everyone is going through something. So if we...

Ramon Vela (01:07:41.775)
can be a little kinder to each other. I know we can make this human experience a better one. Beyond that, thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening to another episode of the story of a brand.