Cordina Hair - Creating Confidence, One Curl at a Time

Ramon Vela (00:02.338)
Welcome back everyone. This is going to be a great show. I have with me, Yonica Cordina, who is founder and creative director of Cordina Hair. Welcome to the show.

Yanika Cordina (00:29.959)
Thank you, Ramon. I'm really excited to be talking to you today.

Ramon Vela (00:33.782)
Yeah, likewise. We had a great pre-interview. We talked about all sorts of stuff and it's been a while since we talked. So I'm glad that we finally were able to sit down and have this interview. And there's just so many things that I want to talk to you about. But I always want to start off with a question of gratitude. And for everyone out there, this is sort of my signature question. I always ask it of every founder who I have on the show. And for me,

It's an important question because it's something that I'm very big on. It's a, I have a meditative practice that I do for gratitude. It's something that has helped me through my difficult times and it's available to you at any time. And it's such an amazing tool if you're feeling stressed out or anxious or worried, which you know, a lot of people are nowadays. So, it's, I definitely want to promote it. But the other reason why I asked this question is that

It's very easy for people to see these products online or on shelf and simply say like, it's just some faceless corporation. They don't really think about the people behind it. And I want you, the listener, to know that there are real people who care deeply about the product, about their design, about the materials that they use, about everything there is their community. They really care and they bleed, sweat and tear over their products.

And I want you to know there are real people behind these brands that we feature here on the show. And one great way of doing that is by understanding who we're talking to and understanding what they're grateful for. So, Yonica, if you don't mind, can you share a moment or a memory when someone did something for you that just made you feel grateful because it meant that they believed in you, your vision or your potential?

Yanika Cordina (02:26.215)
Of course, I think when I first came up with my first product, Flower Curl, the first person I told was my mom. And I think it can be so hard to find people to support your vision and understand it. But my mom was cheering for me from the beginning and she took interest. We brainstormed together, even if she didn't understand all of it.

She helped me with some of the sewing elements at the time and testing the product like sampling and prototyping and just being there for me for when I needed to talk to someone about my idea and my vision. think entrepreneurship can feel so lonely, especially in the beginning when you've got this new idea that no one's heard of. having

A cheerleader definitely helped and that was my mom.

Ramon Vela (03:26.37)
Well, I love that. And it's really important. And it's something we don't really think about when we're starting entrepreneurship. You know, we, we, we might read books, we might join groups and so forth to kind of help us and prepare us and talk to us all about the business stuff. But there's a few areas that I feel like we don't really put enough attention on them. One of them of course is making sure, or at least having those people in mind who are your support network, who

Maybe they're not there to give you business advice. Maybe they're just there to kind of transfer some belief and those moments where we feel down and we feel like we want to quit or we want to give up. Cause there's lots of those during this whole process of entrepreneurship. There are days when things are, feel really bad and you just feel like saying, that's it. I don't, you know, I'm done. I want to go home now. And, and people will sometimes be there for you and say,

sometimes just the most simplest thing, but they make you feel like, okay, I feel grateful for them. I feel energized. I feel like, you know, they've just helped me and I can keep going. So it's really important, I think, to have that support network. Your mother and I'm sure other family members and other friends are there for you. So thanks for sharing that. Because like I said, I think that's an important aspect.

Yanika Cordina (04:54.491)
Yeah, and I think my mum struggles with the business element of things. She doesn't quite get it, but she still supports me. She's been supporting me from the very beginning, and she tries to help in her own little way. And it means so much to me to have that. So yeah, definitely grateful for my mum for being my cheerleader.

Ramon Vela (05:19.645)
So why don't we talk a little bit about how you got started with all this? Where was the initial concept and the idea for your products and for your main product? you you have, I find your, what you've done very interesting because you've been, you're sort of an inventor. You have patents, you're running this business.

You're creative in terms of, you know, doing the marketing and everything else. But is this where you originally found, thought you would find yourself? And how did this all start?

Yanika Cordina (06:01.095)
So my background was more in the PA world. So I was working as a personal assistant at the time. So I was assisting as CEO and multiple directors. So it was more in the kind of admin world and the corporate world. And I always felt a little bit restricted creative wise, but I never quite understood where I would fit in.

And I think every time I try to get more responsibilities, climb the corporate ladder, I always felt a little bit stuck. And I think it just, to be honest, I was driving into work that when the idea for the flower curl popped up, that's how it came about. I was stuck in traffic and I thought, hang on a minute, this is, I've got an idea. And actually,

it might be a good one. So as soon as I got to the office, I drew what I had in mind. And then as soon as I got back to, I'm sorry. pause. My phone went off.

Ramon Vela (07:10.986)
It's okay.

Yanika Cordina (07:16.849)
technologies.

Why? Okay, I don't know what was that. I think it was an alarm. Let me just see if I can... If I don't want it to come off again.

Ramon Vela (07:26.574)
Oh yeah, double check it and make sure.

Ramon Vela (07:32.45)
We'll make sure to the alarm just in case.

Yanika Cordina (07:35.993)
Why did I have an alarm? Take the bin out. Take the bin out. That's the alarm.

Ramon Vela (07:41.173)
okay. I thought maybe it might've been like an emergency alarm. Okay.

Yanika Cordina (07:48.813)
Okay, where was I? Shall I start again?

Ramon Vela (07:50.254)
Start wherever you feel comfortable, let me count us back in. So OK, unpause 123 go.

Yanika Cordina (08:00.615)
So as soon as I got to the office, I drew what I had in mind and then I waited until I got home and started prototyping straight away. So that's how the first idea popped up was driving stuck in traffic. I don't have a creative background per se. And I don't have a background in sewing at all. So I learned how to sew.

by myself and the marketing side of it as well. don't have a background in marketing. So it's all been self-thought. And I feel like at the time as well, everything, I mean, there was a lot of resources I could refer back to, but times have moved on. there's so many things now that you can learn from. There's so many courses, even free content that you can.

learn and tutorials. So I feel like times have improved so much since I've invented the flower girl and the wafer bun. But yeah, that's how it started really. So I just kind of jumped into it. Good idea. And I developed that.

Ramon Vela (09:17.929)
And what year was this?

Yanika Cordina (09:21.831)
That was 2015.

Ramon Vela (09:25.152)
Okay. And so in terms of your first idea that you had as you driving into work, what was, was there any like impetus for that? Like were you having trouble with your hair? Were you doing, were you, like how did it just pop up? Like I'm just wondering, like did you have a problem with it?

Yanika Cordina (09:44.424)
Yeah, guess yes, yes. I've always had like, I've always wanted to style my hair and my hair was always like really damaged from using heated hair tools. So heated hair tools were very in at the time and I was always trying to style my hair and it's just, I was sick of the damage that I was creating to my hair and all the heatless hair curling.

options were just so bulky. I didn't like them sitting around my head. I found them really uncomfortable, impossible to sleep in. So I was always on the lookout to create something. So that, that I think that took quite some time to actually pinpoint what it was. But I was always thinking about creating something.

Ramon Vela (10:41.378)
Hmm.

Yanika Cordina (10:41.671)
It didn't happen overnight and I tried different things as well before I nailed, like stopped and decided to develop the flower curl. I was always thinking of creating something.

Ramon Vela (10:56.874)
And did you have like, so, and, and, and this is the interesting part to me is that there's so many people that have ideas on products, you know, like they always think like, Ooh, this would be better if it was designed this way or, or wouldn't it be cool if we had this product or that product for whatever reason, you know, whatever occasion. And, but very few of us take action on that and, actually go the next step and say, you know what, let me, let me.

draw this up or let me create a prototype and then see if it works and so forth. What was the thing that pushed you into thinking, okay, well maybe I can do this. Like was this something that you felt was a problem for other people as well? Did you like go out and ask your friends, ask your family, did you ask people? Like what was the thing that motivated you to like, you know,

from being on the fence to stepping into the side of actually doing and taking action.

Yanika Cordina (12:01.745)
think being able to actually prototype it myself made a huge difference because if I needed a third party company to help me bring it to life, I simply did not have the funds for that and I needed to be able to create the prototype myself and be able to test it myself, not tell anyone in the process until I know for sure that my idea

works. So that I think that definitely helped because money was an issue. didn't have funding, I didn't have any money towards the idea. So I had to make sure I start I can all start it by myself. So I know that's really hard for certain products. Like sometimes you might need a mold to actually create a prototype and that can cost quite a bit of money. But my product was fabric based.

So I learned how to sew and I tried different variations, different techniques, different fabric, and I created tons of prototypes. So that process took a long time, but I was happy to go through that process because money was an issue and I couldn't delegate that to a third party company to help me with that. But also it was an idea that I thought

If I'm having issues with styling my hair comfortably and there's nothing on the market quite like this, then surely other women would appreciate a product like this. So obviously I tested it on my mum. My mum was like really like pleased with the results as well. So I thought, wow, there's something in this. And that's when I started looking into IP.

and like, okay, can I protect this product, this idea? Because the more I researched, I could not find anything like it. And I thought, surely I need to protect it somehow so that people don't copy it.

Ramon Vela (14:03.757)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (14:15.662)
And that's a whole other ball game and we'll get into that a little bit and for everyone out there if you want to take a look at what we've been talking about you can go to Cordina hair comm that's c-o-r-d-i-n-a hair comm Cordina hair comm and this product that you're talking about is that the What is that the flower curl? Is that the one?

Yanika Cordina (14:39.239)
So the first product was the Flower Curl, which is a heatless hair curler. And the second product came a little bit after the Waiver Bun.

Ramon Vela (14:51.55)
And both of them, you have patents on them?

Yanika Cordina (14:56.091)
Yes.

Ramon Vela (14:57.548)
So that's interesting. was, did you, when you started creating this, when you first created the flower curl and you created the prototype and then you found a version of it that worked well and then you wanted to go to market with that, did the other products or the waiver bond for instance, did they just come natural in terms of like the creation and the inventedness of this or was it something else that you

Yanika Cordina (15:25.159)
So the WaveRuban, sorry, the WaveRuban kind of happened at the same time as the Flower Curl, but the actual, because money was limited, I had to launch one product first, and then the WaveRuban, the actual product ready to go online happened like a year later, but the patent application happened at the same time for both products. So the WaveRuban was already in the works.

Ramon Vela (15:28.088)
No, no, it's okay Greg.

Ramon Vela (15:32.696)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (15:52.131)
Hmm.

Yanika Cordina (15:55.099)
but it just wasn't available to the public yet because of funding or funding issues.

Ramon Vela (15:58.242)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (16:01.836)
Yeah. And did you do any testing? Like, did you go out and do any surveys? Did you meet with other people? And just to make sure you got that market validation.

Yanika Cordina (16:13.351)
So I did a ton of research online and I was looking at what other people are using, what are they complaining about, what they didn't like, what they're actually looking for but it's not available out there. I bought, because it was such a secret, like no one knew about it, I had to buy mannequin heads, test on different hair lengths, cut the lengths.

Ramon Vela (16:42.638)
negative.

Yanika Cordina (16:43.111)
try different thickness. So I used mannequin heads to test the product and with heatless hair curlers the hair needs to be 100 % human hair. So it's quite difficult to find mannequin heads with 100 % human hair but it was part of the process to test the product and also like my mom testing it and then

my sister-in-law testing it. it kind of eventually start, we started to reach out to different people to try and test the product. But I tried to keep it a secret for as long as possible. And if I couldn't, then they had to like sign an NDA. So lots of NDAs. And also I reached out to a big hair care company at the time.

just to see whether there was any interest in the product. And they invited me for an interview, which was like a huge deal for me, because this is a big company, worldwide, very well known. And they were very interested in the product. So that validated my idea. That meeting validated my idea. And I thought, wow, if they saw potential in this, then...

there's definitely something to it. So we were discussing licensing deals at the time. I wasn't sure which way I was going to go. I didn't really understand it. So I was looking at different options to bring the product to market. I thought manufacturing was quite expensive. So you have to have money upfront for a stock that you haven't sold yet. So it was quite tricky in the beginning. So licensing,

was my first thing that I was focusing on, which is where I reached out to different companies to see whether they would like the idea. And every time I got like an email back or an interview, that validated my idea further.

Ramon Vela (18:49.262)
And so what did you end up going with in those early days?

Yanika Cordina (18:53.671)
with the licensing, so I didn't, I didn't know in the end. No. So with the licensing, we, I had this big, this interview with this big company, we went back and forth for months discussing the licensing deal and then eventually it fell through and I was like, okay, I thought that was going to go ahead.

Ramon Vela (18:56.044)
Yeah. So you went with the licensing then? Yes. you did.

Yanika Cordina (19:20.571)
but they were interested in the product. So it clearly works and I provided prototypes to them. They tested the prototypes on their employees and they were happy with the results. So that was really exciting and positive, but in the end, the licensing deal fell through. It just didn't happen. So that was, I think that's what's really pushed me.

Ramon Vela (19:43.874)
Mm-hmm.

Yanika Cordina (19:49.263)
to actually I can do this myself, like I don't need anyone else. And I found a way to manufacture it myself and just bring it to market myself. I think because I was so new to it all and I didn't have any experience in retail, no experience in manufacturing, I needed some support. I think as well I felt like I needed someone to know more than I.

do on the subject, but really you just learn as you go along. So that kind of pushed me to go ahead by myself.

Ramon Vela (20:27.138)
Hmm. You know, did you struggle with, what's the word imposter syndrome and just sort of like, you know, you finally broke broke free and decided to do your own, but it felt like maybe in those early days, you felt like you still needed to that validation, like have someone else, you know, participate to make this real, but it feels like, you know, it feels like at some point you broke free and you just thought, okay, you know what?

If someone's going to do it, it's going to be me and I have to figure this out.

Yanika Cordina (21:01.829)
I was so determined. I think that meeting where I'd be like, actually, we're not going ahead. I think that's what I needed. Like someone telling me, no, we're not taking this forward. And I'm like, you know what? I can do this myself. At that point, I felt like I didn't need anyone. So I knew the only person that can bring this to market was myself. And I felt like I don't need anyone else to help me with this. I just need to feel confident in myself, in my products.

Ramon Vela (21:24.525)
Mm-hmm.

Yanika Cordina (21:32.019)
and do whatever I can to bring this to market and that's what I did. So I think sometimes when you receive a rejection it really helps you realize what actually which way you want to go and that's what I needed like a no a rejection to actually go ahead.

Ramon Vela (21:50.542)
Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes people, they stop themselves because even though they have it within them to, to, to achieve and do the things that they want to, they still kind of wait, for others to validate them or, or, know, to, to, to, cause they just don't think they're, they're capable of doing it, but when in reality they are. And so I, I see that a lot with people, not just entrepreneurs, but just, you know, just people,

They need that shot in the arm to have that self-belief. Sometimes it comes in different ways and like for you, it came with like a rejection that finally got you past that.

Yanika Cordina (22:30.759)
I think sometimes I still need some validation. like I have, don't know, sales and retail is always like up and down. And some days I'm like, I question everything. And some days it's amazing. And I'm like, wow, we've had such a good month. then another month is a bit...

more like slower and I start questioning myself or questioning the product and then the next month I get a review from a celebrity and it's like it's so up and down and sometimes you do need someone to say you know this is just the nature of it this is just how it goes and you just have to I think the quicker you accept that it's not always going to be plain sailing and it's not always going to be positive.

Ramon Vela (23:14.838)
Mm-hmm.

Yanika Cordina (23:23.877)
and you have to constantly fix problems. That's just the nature of entrepreneurship and running a business. I think in the beginning as well, I thought there were so many things that went wrong and like constantly always fixing problems. And at the time I thought, is it me? Like, am I not cut out for this? Am I doing something wrong or I'm just not, it's just not meant to

for me, but it's just entrepreneurship, it's just running a business. It's just what happens. You're constantly fixing problems. And the sooner you realize that, the better. You can just fix problems quicker, move on quicker, and have a better vision as well. So yeah, think the beginning is hard because you just don't know what you're getting yourself into. And having someone you can turn to for reassurance, think

that definitely helps. You're not always going to find it, but if you do have some reassurance from someone, that definitely helps.

Ramon Vela (24:32.918)
Yeah, well, and you described it so well. mean, that's just the nature of entrepreneurship. I've interviewed so many people who started off not really knowing what their industry was about. know, like if they made clothes, many people just had no idea how to design clothes or manufacture clothes. now they have a whole business around it.

But so many people start off really not knowing. I mean, I think that's really just the nature. Very few times that someone come in and really have a great understanding of the business that they're doing. So much about entrepreneurship and so many different examples are people who just have this idea but aren't familiar with like how to make it and how to do it. And so you sometimes spend a lot of times making mistakes and going to all different rabbit holes until you find the right one and you find the right path and so forth.

Even for instance, this is a completely different industry, but there's a company called Chomps. create these like, I think they call them like meat sticks, like the dried beef and dried meats and stuff like that in packages. And they started off and they also didn't have a lot, they had to learn everything. They had to create their own websites. They have to do everything. And now they're...

Yanika Cordina (25:43.445)
yes?

Ramon Vela (25:59.51)
like a half a billion dollars in sales. so, you know, things, you know, things, things start off the same for a lot of people, you know, but you just got to keep going. Yeah.

Yanika Cordina (26:09.489)
Definitely. I think no one knows what they're doing at first. you just, you're literally winging it and learning throughout the whole process. You're just learning as you go along. And I think the key to actually surviving entrepreneurship, I think, is knowing what to ask and knowing who to ask. I think that's quite important. Like sometimes we...

I have so many questions that I don't know the answers to. So how do you phrase it to get the answer that you need? So being able to ask the right questions is very important. I think that helps you move forward. And don't be afraid to ask questions as well. think that's quite important as well.

Ramon Vela (26:55.906)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (27:04.408)
Well, and something you said earlier is also, think I would include in that, those keys of entrepreneurship is something you said, I just wrote on acceptance, but you said something like just accepting the fact that you're going to have to do these things and things are not always going to go well and you're going to have ups and you're going to have downs and so forth. think we naturally, as people want to see one,

things to work out for us, right? Like who doesn't, right? Everyone, we always want it to work out for us and we expect things hopefully to work out for us. But the reality is, the sooner as entrepreneurs and really as people too, the sooner we accept that things are, things are going to go bad sometimes. know, like things are just going to go bad sometimes. but we'll fit, you'll figure it out and it's going to take a lot of work and it's going to take a lot of ups and downs.

and event, but eventually if you keep going, it's going to work itself out. think sometimes people don't accept that or don't, have different expectations. And when they have different expectations and they get disappointed and they've in those moments that are down, they feel, they feel down. Whereas if you kind of go in thinking, you know what? It's a roller coaster. Sometimes things are going to go well. Sometimes things are going to bad. I'm just going to try to stay in the middle there and just try to like stay in discontinue, you know, going.

but yeah, I think that's another key, for a of people.

Yanika Cordina (28:34.151)
At the time, I honestly thought I was the problem, like I'm doing things wrong or I'm not approaching things the right way. But since then, there's a lot of content on social media by founders, entrepreneurs talking how hard it is and how things go wrong all the time. And I think that's when I actually realized, you know what, the problem isn't me, it's just the way...

it is when you're running a business, things are going to go wrong all the time. So I think it took me a while to actually figure out that it's not, it wasn't me. It's just the nature of running a business.

Ramon Vela (29:15.436)
Yeah, yeah. And so, so you've created these these products. When was the point where you started feeling like, OK, things are like this is actually going to work like you had this great idea, you started testing it, you got some validation. But once you put it on the market, was there any point where you've where you felt like, wow, I think this is really going to turn into a business and this is this is this is something that's going to be can be pretty cool.

Was it like your first sales? Was it getting into a certain place? Was it, you know, making a certain amount of money? Was it maybe having a celebrity find it and post about it? Do you remember that moment? Was there a milestone like that?

Yanika Cordina (30:00.559)
Yes, definitely. think there was this influencer that was very popular at the time in the haircare world and she bought the product and created a video about it and it went crazy. It was like it was the first viral video for the company and she posted about it twice and I reposted it online.

Ramon Vela (30:20.792)
Mm-hmm.

Yanika Cordina (30:28.103)
and sales just went nuts. So I sold all of the stock that I had and then I continued, like sales were coming in so quickly that I didn't even have time to think. And basically I oversold what I didn't have stock for all the orders that they were coming in. So that was the first, the first episode of

Ramon Vela (30:47.469)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (30:56.706)
it

Yanika Cordina (30:56.743)
Probably I had a panic attack then because I had so many orders and I didn't have the stock to fulfill it all. But I definitely thought there's something here that I could build on. And it took one person to promote it and the sales just came in so easy as well. So that was the first moment of I will video.

Ramon Vela (31:21.134)
And, know, now looking back, can think like at the moment, at the time you probably thought like, okay, this is you're panicking about it. But at the same time though, it's not a bad problem to have, right? I mean, when you think about it, but so let's fast forward a little bit and you know, we've talked about some of the challenges, but one of the challenges that we talked about during our pre-interview was, you know, obviously

this is something that a lot of companies have to be aware of is infringement. So like you're fortunate in that you had a patent and a lot of people don't do the patent. They skip it or they put it off or they think, yeah, maybe I should do it and so forth or I'll do this later or whatnot. But the problem is nowadays, especially overseas markets and other places like that,

people have a whole business around just simply copying other products. I know we don't wanna go into detail with some stuff that's pending, but just like overall, kind of describe a little bit about the issues you've had with these infringements and then maybe in general to be helpful to other people. Like what are some of the lessons you've learned around that?

Yanika Cordina (32:42.671)
Yeah I mean patterns in general they're so difficult to one understand to also just get a granted patent it takes years for a patent to get granted but when it does it's so worth it to have so the patents that I have

helped me remove over a thousand five hundred infringements. That is a lot for a small business and we don't even have a team of legal people taking these down. We're doing this in-house, taking them down every week and just working towards it every week basically. We create a whole system around taking infringements down and the reality is if you don't have a patent

They're going, people are going to abuse your product and copy it. And if you do have a patent, people are going to abuse it as well, which I thought that was shocking to me because I thought, wow, like I'm public publicly saying that I have IP behind my products and there's people still copying and it's not just copying the product. They take my content, my videos, use my images, use my videos.

And sometimes they manipulate images, they manipulate videos and still copy the products despite having IP. So people are not scared, but the IP is going to help you take these down. So that's been a very positive outcome for Quaddina Hair, being able to take these down. It's a long process.

Ramon Vela (34:04.099)
Mm-hmm.

Yanika Cordina (34:29.957)
It takes so much of our time, protecting our business is important, protecting the products, also protecting consumers when they purchase a copy, it's just not, it's not going to match the original. I walked into a store and there was my product, but it was a copy. It's like I dreamt of the moment of going into a shop and seeing my products on the shelf.

Ramon Vela (34:46.882)
Mm-hmm.

Yanika Cordina (34:59.525)
And when I did do that, wasn't even, it was a copy of my product. just, it's, it's an awful feeling. It's, it's not a nice thing to go through, but I think I've learned to accept it now. Like it's part of our process, like taking infringements down is what we do every week and looking for copies constant is this what we do. So, we learned to accept it.

Ramon Vela (35:03.32)
Hmm, well...

Yanika Cordina (35:27.567)
and but it helps so much to have the IP behind you.

Ramon Vela (35:32.938)
And so from someone else who's similar to you and who has invented things and put patents together or who have invented things and may not have put patents, it sounds like the first thing to do is really to protect that IP with a patent, right? And would it be any other suggestions that you would provide?

Yanika Cordina (35:56.999)
So it depends on the product. So some items cannot be patented, but you can create a trademark around your patents. So people will always remember that the product's name is X, Y, and Z, and they can always think of that product with that name. So you can trademark a product if a patent is not possible. There's different types of patents.

the utility pattern, design pattern. You can go down a trademark route. So there's different ways to protect your product and your brand. No one can steal your brand. So there's strong branding behind your product. Then people will associate that product with your brand. So it depends what product you have, but there's definitely ways to protect it. So a lot of creators have their images stolen.

you can take down images. see so many small businesses and creators where their images have been stolen and they don't do anything about it. That's where it upsets me. Like you can take these down. There's copyright infringement so they can take images down. So you can protect your business and your products in different ways. You just have to take action because if you don't these copies can very easily override your business.

Ramon Vela (37:13.411)
You

Yanika Cordina (37:25.285)
A lot of businesses shut down because these copies took over and they're not getting the business. So it's important to take action. Otherwise you just get buried down in Google. you're your product and your copies are coming up before you, then no one's going to see the original. And that's what was happening to us. When someone was typing into Google,

Ramon Vela (37:30.541)
Yeah.

Yanika Cordina (37:53.644)
copies were coming up first. I was like, this is a disaster. Like we need to be on top always. So as soon as we decided to like take this seriously, we cannot have dupes and copies coming up first in Google. We have to take control over these infringements and it's something that you have to constantly be on it. It's just, it's very time consuming, but it's worth it.

Ramon Vela (37:54.978)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (38:21.63)
Mm-hmm. And so I noticed that you were on Dragon's Den. Was that a positive experience for you?

Yanika Cordina (38:29.859)
It was, it was. Yes, I got a lot of press from it, very good press. I didn't get the deal in the end. I walked out with a deal, but the deal fell through. So there's a lot of rejection in my story. But again, it's like, I got a lot of good press from it. And it's good to, it's good that I have walked out with a deal as well. So that was another

Ramon Vela (38:41.635)
Mm-hmm.

Yanika Cordina (38:57.489)
good validation from one of the dragons, liking the product, making an offer on TV, me accepting that offer. So there's a lot of positivity that came out of it, definitely.

Ramon Vela (39:05.633)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (39:14.082)
Well, did you go in, because I know a lot of people who go in, maybe not on Dragon's Den, but you know, the similar shows and so forth, they go in because they know that they can get a boost. They know they can, they'll get some good publicity, they'll get, you know, but they may not always think, okay, well, if a deal happens, it's great. If it doesn't happen, it's okay too. They're just grateful to be able to like appear on the show and kind of get that publicity. Were you in that, in that?

In that area where you kind of felt like if a deal happens, it's great. If it doesn't, then it's okay. But you know, the publicity is going to help either way. I mean, it's kind of like a marketing tool when you think about it.

Yanika Cordina (39:52.997)
Yeah, definitely. Yes, yes, definitely a great marketing tool. think I went in, so this happened, I went on the show before the product went viral. And so it was very early stage when I went on the show and I still wanted my products to be validated. And I wanted people to kind of see it and have an opinion. I wanted to hear their opinion.

So I think it was very important for me to know what the dragons had to say on a product that they'd never seen before. It's a different way of curling hair. It's a different technique. So I wanted to hear their feedback and their feedback is what mainly maybe pushed me to go on the show. Obviously the funding was important as well. Like I had no funding. So some funding would have been great, like investment.

Ramon Vela (40:45.528)
Thank

Yanika Cordina (40:50.275)
And having someone who's obviously a lot more successful guiding me through it was definitely a plus as well. So just all of them combined. I did go on the show very early on. I think having that validation mattered a lot.

Ramon Vela (40:59.554)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (41:10.638)
And did you eventually, has the company received funding since then? Or is it good both sides?

Yanika Cordina (41:17.895)
I haven't applied for any funding, nothing. So it's been kind of no business loans or anything. yeah, we're still with no funding. So we're just running it, you know, investing back into the business. But no funding.

Ramon Vela (41:39.874)
Yeah. Well, do you have plans to, because, know, I mean, if you're making it work, I know a lot of people, especially in the food industry, which has really, really tight margins, I know some folks just prefer to just go it on their own and just not, you know, just grow small and keep growing little by little, but stay as profitable as possible.

Yanika Cordina (41:59.601)
I think it's very tempting. I've been thinking about it a bit more lately. think sometimes you do because cash flow is always, it always becomes an issue. So I think in order to grow, you definitely have to put money into it and hire people to help you. Like I can't do it all. I have to delegate certain roles and get other people involved in the business. I think

I like delegating, I want to delegate more. So I definitely been thinking about it. maybe I will go down that route very soon.

Ramon Vela (42:34.424)
Mm-hmm.

Well, let me know if you do and I'll release it to my network as well. So, all right. So why don't you walk us through a little bit of what we'll find on the website. And in particular, if someone's listening to this and they love the story of yours and they're supportive of this journey that you've had and really feel and understand and relate to your story, where do you want them to start with the brand?

Yanika Cordina (42:43.335)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (43:07.574)
like in terms of their journey, like if they're, what product do you want them to try? Obviously, I guess it depends on what their objective is, but where do you recommend people when you meet them and you tell them about your brand and your company, is there any particular products that you wanna focus on and tell them about?

Yanika Cordina (43:29.029)
It's a hard one because I don't have a lot of products. I've got three products and usually when a customer comes and purchases one of our hair tools, they come back and purchase the other one. So we do have a bundle that we bundle everything together. But I think you have to start with the flower curl. I feel like that is just where the company started as well.

And it's very unique, like the hair tool is very unique and it's wired and patterned so you can adjust it according to your hair thickness, which you can't really do with other hair tools. You can, and it's very comfortable to sleep in. So it sits right on top of the scalp and it's not getting in the way. So you can wear it overnight. So you can roll in your sleep. You can't do that with other hair tools.

and you can wear it during the day if you wanted to and it still looks cute and usually when someone purchases the flower curl they come back and get the Waverbond. So the Waverbond is a little bit different it creates soft heatless waves rather than defined curls and the Waverbond can be used during the day like during work, activities, gym so it's a multi-purpose hair tool and it can be used overnight as well so

and the beauty of it is that it doesn't pull at the roots. So if you're used to having your hair up or you love having your hair up, usually hair ties cause tension to your scalp, cause it's headaches and this doesn't do that. And you can have your hair up all day without causing that tension. And once you remove it, you get those soft, heatless waves and the hair quality and hair health improves.

you can see a difference in the quality of your hair when you use the product. there's a lot of positivity around the products. yeah, so the other third product is our hair oil, which kind of goes hand in hand with the other hair tools. But yeah, so three products at the moment.

Ramon Vela (45:43.714)
Well, I'm looking at the videos that were on the website. So cordinahair.com cordinahair.com. And I mean, don't have the kind of hair to use this product myself, but I mean, it looks fun. I it looks fun. Like I'm looking at, I think that's you right there. And, it just looks like so much fun to do. I mean, on top of everything.

Yanika Cordina (45:54.791)
no!

Yanika Cordina (46:05.485)
Yeah, it's honestly, I still get excited removing the product because I'm always like shocked. I'm still shocked to this, like every time I use the flower curler, especially when it gives you these beautiful curls, I've never been able to achieve anything like that. And I still get excited when I use it and the wave of one I wear it every day and every night. So.

yeah it's quite a quirky, quirky hair tools.

Ramon Vela (46:36.652)
Yeah. And so walk us through a little bit about, by the way, this cover right here, the splash page picture or image, is that Malta? it's beautiful.

Yanika Cordina (46:48.569)
It is, yeah, it's actually godo, but obviously part of Malta.

Ramon Vela (46:54.156)
Yeah, it looks beautiful. So, walk us through the website. So, if someone's brand new, they're coming to CordinaHair.com. They love this idea of the flower curl and the waverbund. Do you recommend that they take a quiz before they do this? Do they go through the tutorials and videos? What do you recommend?

Yanika Cordina (47:17.287)
So the quiz is very, very popular. If they click on the quiz, they can actually decide what's best for their hair. So if they have a certain hair length or hair thickness, the quiz guides you as to what would be better suited for your hair thickness and hair lengths. So the quiz is a way to start to see what's best for your hair. A lot of people do go on the videos and see

see watch tutorials, see who's reviewing the product as well. And yeah, I mean, we've got some couple of tutorials where they want to see how to set the products in your hands. You know, you're using different techniques. So the tutorials are quite important for people because like, okay, how do you use this? So on our product boxes, we have QR codes that people can scan.

and it takes them straight to the tutorials to see how you set them in.

Ramon Vela (48:23.246)
And walk me through the oil. Is the oil, is it to help you with the curling process?

Yanika Cordina (48:30.311)
So the oil can be used as a pre-wash treatment. it's completely clean and green. So we haven't added any synthetic ingredients in there. Like I'm very passionate about like a pure formula. So it's got innovative green ingredients that replace synthetic silicons, but they mimic silicons. So they leave the hair feeling soft, silky.

and can use it as a pre-wash treatment before you wash your hair and you can also use it as a leave-in oil. So when you're styling your hair, when you're setting the hair in the hair tools, you can use it as a leave-in oil as well.

Ramon Vela (49:14.036)
And is this, is your product designed for people who, for any particular type of hair, like a straight hair or, I mean, obviously if you want to curl it, you probably have straighter hair, but is there, is this particular good for people who have longer hair versus shorter hair? Does it work on different types and different sizes?

Yanika Cordina (49:34.503)
So it can be used from around armpit length hair down to the tailbone length. So it's quite rare to actually find a hair tool that you can use it for different hair lengths. So the Flower Curl got different hair lengths. We have a hair length guide on the website for the Flower Curl and a hair length guide for the Waverbond. The Waverbond is great for very long hair.

So from about mid back to tailbone length and the flower curl from armpit length to waist length hair. And you'd be surprised a lot of people with curly hair actually use our products. Some people have to blow dry their hair depending on where the hair with their natural curl structure starts. But a lot of people find that they want more defined curls. next.

someone with naturally curly hair they can they use the products to create more definition to their curls but obviously someone with straight hair, wavy hair they would choose that product.

Ramon Vela (50:32.28)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (50:39.15)
And so I want to be respectful of your time, but there's two more questions and these should be easy. One is where do they, if someone wants to purchase these, where do they go? Do you recommend the website? Do you have any other places that you're selling this?

Yanika Cordina (50:57.115)
I recommend going through our website. We sell worldwide. We've always sold worldwide from day one. And that's where most people find us on our website.

Ramon Vela (51:11.904)
Okay, so and then is there any new products coming to the marketplace? Like any new accessories or any new of the curling products?

Yanika Cordina (51:24.773)
I am actually working on a new product. It's not hair related, but it goes nicely with the hair tools. So we're getting into the sleepwear. So we're kindly prototyping pajamas that will go beautifully with the hair tools because you can wear the hair tools overnight. Again, that process is very lengthy. So we've gone through the first prototyping sampling stage.

Ramon Vela (51:31.853)
Hmm.

Yanika Cordina (51:54.755)
So we're still very early on, but it's a very exciting course. I've never launched a sleepwear before. again, I'm learning all about it. But since I've done products that are fabric-based already, it should help with this process.

Ramon Vela (52:13.044)
Mm-hmm, and do you plan to have your products at retailers at any time?

Yanika Cordina (52:19.345)
So we have been in retailers, but I feel like this year we're kind of pushing back to go back to square one. So we're going back onto our website. So we have been in big retailers like Urban Outfitters and some in the UK, Beauty Bay. We're still on Beauty Bay in Europe. We are in a retailer in Europe, but I think...

Ramon Vela (52:30.638)
Mm-hmm.

Yanika Cordina (52:47.527)
It's just there's so many things happening this year and I think taking control back where people can find us mainly on our website. Obviously the profit margins are much better through our website as well. It's just a lot of testing, I would say, and decide what's really actually working for you. having big names on board is definitely exciting and a

Ramon Vela (53:00.034)
Mm-hmm.

Yanika Cordina (53:15.335)
and it helps with marketing the business, but I think when you look at the numbers, it might not work very well. So I think you have to go through it to actually understand what's best. So we're going back to square one almost.

Ramon Vela (53:23.32)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (53:29.239)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (53:34.75)
You remind me a little bit of a brand that we had on the show a long time ago, and I can't remember the name of the company, but they did really well on, and I don't know if there's a European version of this. They did very well on a show called QVC. It used to be a TV show, I think there's online now, where they highlight products and they show the products and then people buy while they're watching.

Yanika Cordina (53:53.152)
yeah, yeah.

Yanika Cordina (53:59.271)
you

Ramon Vela (54:00.558)
It feels like your product would do really well in something like that because it's so visual. Like I'm just looking at your videos and it just, huh?

Yanika Cordina (54:05.923)
we were going to. Yeah, we were going to be on QVC but the numbers, but we couldn't agree on the numbers and it would have been interesting but I think understanding the numbers is so important and if it doesn't make sense then it's not worth it and it was going to be a lot of work.

Ramon Vela (54:11.907)
Ramon Vela (54:16.449)
Okay.

Ramon Vela (54:26.946)
Yes.

Yanika Cordina (54:32.103)
at the time when we were discussing it as well, I think it just didn't make sense to go ahead. So I decided not to go ahead with QVC. But is it, I mean, we could potentially go back, I don't know, but at the time it just didn't make sense.

Ramon Vela (54:48.194)
Yeah. Well, and I think that that actually, I like that aspect of it. It reminds me of an interview I did with Rosalie from a brand called Wild Wunder. She was invited on to, on the United States version of Dragon's Den, which, know, Shark Tank. And at the time she said no.

Like she didn't want to do it because it didn't make sense because they weren't ready. They, they weren't going to make money. It was probably going to overload them. They wouldn't just wouldn't, we're incapable of doing it from a backend standpoint. And, and, but when she was ready and when it did make sense, that's when she went back and say, Hey, are you guys still interested? And so it worked out well for her. but I think it takes, it takes, courage and it also takes, a good head on your shoulders to be able to say no.

because one of the things that I've noticed a lot of entrepreneurs do is they say yes to everything. yeah, and you don't want to get back fired.

Yanika Cordina (55:46.695)
and it came back fire on you. I feel like, no, I think your ego would enjoy going on like QVC and saying yes to these deals. But at the end of the day, when you're doing like X amount of work to have this partnership on board and the numbers don't match up, it's just not gonna be worth it. And that's the conclusion I-

I came to eventually. you know, it takes months to actually go through the process. It took months of negotiating and deciding whether it was going to be worth it or not. But it definitely takes courage to say no and stand up for yourself as well. Sometimes you try to negotiate and get a good deal and you just not getting that negotiating back and you're just stuck.

So that's almost like a red flag for me. Like if they're not willing to negotiate and meet halfway, then that's already one site. Like someone is already winning in that situation and I'm always gonna have to step back and kind of accept whatever's being thrown at me. So being in control, I think that's quite important.

Ramon Vela (57:08.846)
Yeah, no, I agree. And that's what I mean. I think you're showing a lot of courage and a lot of discipline by doing that because you have to know yourself and you have to be, you can't say no, say yes to everything. You have to say no, especially if it doesn't make sense because a part of you wants to say yes and the part of you wants to be in, you know, your ego. Yeah. But no, I think that's fantastic. So this has been amazing. I've really enjoyed this, Janneka.

Yanika Cordina (57:29.051)
Yes to everything, yes.

Ramon Vela (57:38.474)
And there's so many different things that we could talk about. I have to pick and choose different things, but it's been a pleasure. I have enjoyed speaking with you not only today, but in our pre-interview. And I invite you back anytime, you know, when you want to come back, maybe talk about some of those other details of other stuff, you're welcome back. Especially also when you have new products, you're welcome back. When you finally get the new products out, please come back.

Yanika Cordina (57:56.199)
Thank you, I appreciate that.

Ramon Vela (58:06.656)
even if only for like an update and letting us know what those products are. Any last words you want to leave with the audience?

Yanika Cordina (58:16.199)
Any last words? I think there's so many moving parts when running a business. What I've learnt that I believe helps with the marketing side of things is to never think you're boring people, like you can repeat yourself and like you have to be the one who's always

talking about your business. No one's going to be talking about the business as much as you do. And sometimes you'll be like, I've already spoken about that. Maybe I shouldn't say it again. But no one cares. You can talk about it again, and you reach different people. And I think that's, I'm always trying to remind myself to always talk about my business and promote it in different ways. there's like, I don't know, let's just.

let's say there's a sale going. I won't just mention it once, but I'll mention it a few times over a few days. And that helps with the marketing element and getting the word out. So don't be afraid to constantly promote. At the end of the day, no one really cares if you're doing it once or three times, but it will matter for your business.

Ramon Vela (59:31.374)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (59:40.876)
Yeah, I think that's great advice. And I see that a lot with people who, well, one is that they, they have a natural tendency to not want to promote themselves because they feel whatever, you know, they feel something where like they don't want to keep doing it. And, and then the second thing I always notice is what you exactly what you just said, which is sometimes if you're promoting yourself, you kind of feel like you think you're doing it too much.

But the reality is, especially on social media, not everyone on your social media channel or feed sees that. You know, sees the same thing. Yeah.

Yanika Cordina (01:00:17.625)
Exactly, like they might not even see it. So you're worried that the same people are going to see it. But actually, I think every time you post, different people see it. So might as well post it 10 times rather than once and see where it goes.

Ramon Vela (01:00:31.02)
Yes. Yeah, I agree. Great words of wisdom. So thank you, Yanika. I appreciate you making time for us. It's been a pleasure. And like I said, you're welcome back anytime.

Yanika Cordina (01:00:42.391)
likewise. Thank you so much Ramon, you ask amazing questions. Thank you for having

Ramon Vela (01:00:48.034)
Well, I appreciate it. Everyone out there, we have just had Janneke Cordina, who is founder and creative director of CordinaHair.com. CordinaHair.com. We're gonna have that link. by the way, Janneke, your Instagram or your social media channel.

Yanika Cordina (01:01:09.666)
It's called Dina hair.

Ramon Vela (01:01:11.54)
Okay, great. So we're to have that link to their Instagram and their social media channel and the website on our podcast description, which you can find on Apple and Spotify and pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts, simply type in the story of a brand show and you should be able to find it. Beyond that, everyone stay sane, stay safe, stay healthy. And one last thing, if you well, actually, before I say that one last thing, I highly recommend I really enjoyed my conversation.

with Yonica and I highly recommend that you go to the website, sign up for the newsletter, see if there's something there for you. This is a story which, and this is a brand which I truly believe fits our tagline, which is product worth buying, brand worth supporting. And I think that definitely fits. So go to the website, sign up for the newsletter, get, you be aware of the products and the promotions and all of the other things that happen throughout the year.

probably the best way to keep in touch. So do that. And then one last thing. We've all been going through a lot of stuff. The last few years, pandemic, economy, geopolitical wars, politics, all sorts of things. Let's do ourselves a favor and remember that everyone is going through something. And if we can just remember that and maybe just be a little kinder to each other, I know we can make this human experience a better one. Beyond that, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

for listening to another episode of the story of a brand.