Avocado Mattress - What Makes a Mattress Truly Organic?

Ramon Vela (00:03.064)
Welcome back everyone. This is gonna be a great show. I have with me V Nguyen, who is co-CEO of Avocado Mattress. Welcome to the show.

Vy Nguyen (00:27.833)
thanks for having me Ramones. Pleasure to be here.

Ramon Vela (00:29.762)
Well, I appreciate your time and thanks very much. know you're busy and running a company, but I appreciate you spending a few minutes with me and my listeners so we can kind of get to know a little bit about your journey as well as the journey of the brand and more about the products. So I always like to start these interviews the same way. I have this sort of opening question and I ask it for two reasons in case people are new listeners.

Truly believe in the power of gratitude and I think it's a great tool. really is a, it's something at your disposal. If you have anxiety, if you have stress, if you need to get present, it's really, really powerful. And I like to promote it anytime I can. And then secondly, I really love to bring these interviews down to a real human level. And what I mean by that is that it's so easy for consumers, for people out there to see a product on the,

on the shelf, on the retail shelf or in retail stores or online and just kind of think like this is just some sort of a, you know, corporate, faceless corporation. But I'd like for you to know that there's real people behind these brands that we feature here on the show. People who care about their product, about the quality, about their mission, about their consumers and their customers. And one great way of getting to know who we're speaking with today is by understanding what they're grateful for.

So V, if you don't mind, can you share a moment or a memory when someone did something for you that just made you feel grateful because it meant that they believed in you, your vision, or your potential?

Vy Nguyen (02:06.322)
Yeah, that's a great question. You know, this happens to coincide this week with we're doing a family oral history and interviews with my parents and all the siblings. We have seven siblings. But it just reminds me of to your question, you know, my parents took a very difficult journey out of Vietnam, fleeing in the middle of night on a boat. just just so they could bring, you know, they back then they had.

I guess about four kids by then, and fleeing Vietnam, leaving their home country so that they could help start a better life and a better future for their children. And I think that really has set the tone for everything that has sort of happened in my life, the opportunities I've had, the people I've got to meet, the education I have. So if anything is a gratitude for my parents really taking that sort of perilous decision to immigrate and move here and start a new life.

Ramon Vela (03:05.602)
Well, and that's a powerful one. I know that you've lived with it for so long, but I think it's always great to remember it because it really is a difficult decision for your parents, or it was a difficult decision for them because it was scary. was...

Vy Nguyen (03:23.48)
sure. Not knowing the language, not knowing, you know, what kind of employment you would have. I mean, it's, it's, you could only imagine if you were today, pick up and move it to another country that you didn't know the language in. And, know, back then it was very, a lot of economic hardships on top of that. it's not something easy to do.

Ramon Vela (03:42.574)
Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's really difficult. Most of us can't even imagine doing that. And like you said, we find it difficult even if we're just moving for business or for a job or something. We think it's difficult, but they had so much. mean, they're like war torn experiences and everything else. And they just had so much. So yeah, mean, you have parents who really are a testament to...

Vy Nguyen (03:53.776)
Right.

Ramon Vela (04:12.46)
to being parents because they wanted the best for you. And they were willing to do whatever they needed to do. So that's great. It's very moving.

Vy Nguyen (04:19.194)
It speaks to the American journey, mean the American dream and how people of all cultures and different backgrounds come to this country to seek that opportunity and it's very unique in the world that what we have here.

Ramon Vela (04:34.702)
Yeah, exactly. I 100 % agree. My family also came, but it wasn't as perilous and difficult a journey as yours. But this is fantastic. Thank you. I appreciate you sharing that. And that, like I said, goes to heart of the question. Definitely be grateful for that. Are they still with us?

Vy Nguyen (04:55.472)
Yeah, yeah, like I said, we're doing a sort of family oral history this week. So we're doing some interviews and video recordings with them, with all the siblings, just so that the next generation, you know, hears the stories.

Ramon Vela (05:09.714)
that's pretty, that's pretty cool. Actually, I had a brand that did that and they did some sort of like video stuff where they captured, they captured answers on, you know, on video. And then, then they had the technology where people could then go to the website and ask a question and the video would, you know, answer and so forth. It's kind of interesting.

Vy Nguyen (05:34.004)
then the right answer, John.

Ramon Vela (05:37.802)
Anyhow, that's a little side note, but I love what you're doing that because many times it gets too late to ask those questions, to talk about, to hear those stories and to hear it from them and then to hear it from your experience and your siblings experience. That's really precious. mean, believe me, I started doing this too late. My mother has already passed away. My dad passed away already and I did it too late. I captured a little bit of of those stories, but, my great grandmother who I grew up, you know, we, we,

We had multiple generations in our household. And I wasn't able to do that with my great-grandmother, I wish I had. So good for you guys.

Vy Nguyen (06:17.951)
My mother-in-law lives with us also. I'm familiar with the multiple generation household.

Ramon Vela (06:20.514)
You

Oh yeah. You know, a of immigrant, a lot of us that come from immigrant backgrounds have multiple generations. I was actually, I was actually joking with someone the other day that, um, it's so, it's becoming so unaffordable, you know, for people in their twenties to have their place. You know, they end up staying at home longer and it's like, we're coming back to multiple, multiple generations again. Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right. Well, so.

Vy Nguyen (06:43.218)
Maybe not the worst thing in the world.

Ramon Vela (06:53.132)
I'm really fascinated by your story. We're talking a little bit about, know, interestingly, we're talking about the wood in the background and how I love the wood. And you started telling me a little bit about the product. Walk us through a little bit of the history behind Avocado Mattress. And by the way, for everyone out there, let me just, V, let me just mention the website. It's Avocado Green Mattress is the name of the website. If you want to take a look at what we're talking about. So V, yeah, tell us a little bit about the background.

Vy Nguyen (07:09.691)
Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (07:22.194)
Yeah, so Avocado Mattress originated in about 2016 and our co-founders, three of them in particular, Jeff, Mark and Jay, had the concept in mind of really creating a organic mattress brand. then partly, think, you know, at that time, Jeff was really had a new child. And, you know, as you

get in those moments, you really try to search for the healthiest options you could get. And it was not that much available there. And so him and a few guys got together and really wanted to figure out if there was a market for, to the masses for natural and organic bedding that wasn't made with foam. And they came to, so back then I had already had a mattress factory.

I started a mattress factory, was originally my dad's. I bought it from him in 2010 and we were making a private label. were doing different brands. We're manufacturing for different brands and we had our own brand. And then they came to me to, to help partner with them to, prototype the product. And so we spent the better part of a year, you know, really prototyping, trying different things. And then finally we got the product to market. and you know, within a year or two, it really.

Ramon Vela (08:22.786)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (08:46.354)
resonated with consumers and really took off. think partly we were one of the first brands that was able to create a organic option in mattresses that was price affordable for the masses. There was a few other really niche brands, but they were sort of $5,000 and above type price points. And so it wasn't as accessible as we were. And we saw it really taking off. during that time,

the two businesses sort of merged together. And that's sort of how it's become Avocado Mattress is really what our main focus is now.

Ramon Vela (09:22.67)
Mm-hmm. And so I have a bunch of questions about competition and everything else, but let's just clarify for the audience. When you say organic mattress, kind of describe it a little bit more in detail because in my mind, I have a whole bunch of different images that pop up when I hear that, but tell us what it actually is.

Vy Nguyen (09:38.118)
Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (09:42.256)
Yeah, so I mean, think we could think about it from a couple of different aspects. Traditional mattresses are generally made with either all foam, polyurethane foam or inner springs and foam. call those hybrids. And foam, good or bad, it's basically input to make foam is from petrochemicals. You mix two or three different types of chemicals together. You start a reaction that then

liquid chemical bakes and then it turns into a sort of a solid state what we know as foam and that's traditionally 90 plus percent of the bedding market is sort of made of that. We set out to create a mattress that wasn't reliant on the petrochemical foams and plastic and any other sort of non-natural materials out there and so you know our mattresses are predominantly made with

Ramon Vela (10:19.8)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (10:36.548)
Essentially we have an inner spring which is made with just, you know, wire, steel. And on top of that, we'll have layers of latex, which I think a lot of people don't realize latex is the sap of a rubber tree. And so a rubber tree gets, the sap gets collected every day. Once you sort of have enough of that liquid sap, you create a vulcanization process that sort of cooks it. You put it in a mold, you heat it up and then the

Ramon Vela (10:51.618)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (11:06.63)
the sap becomes solid form and it feels like rubber and that's how tires are made. But in our particular purposes, we put in a mold that's the size of a mattress. It gets cooked, it turns into a six inch slab of rubber. And then we cut that down to multiple slices. And then that's kind of our comfort layer that we put inside the mattress. And so that's another component that goes into our bed. then the next one really is the

Regulations in the U.S., all mattresses have to pass a fire test, a fire burn test. And there's sort of standards. You have to send it out to a lab. They put a burner on it for 90 seconds and they measure the heat release and how fast it flames out and different things that you have to pass. The vast majority of people in order to pass that test use a synthetic sock or synthetic fabric that's either coated with some sort of chemical or something.

Ramon Vela (11:43.842)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (12:06.77)
to be able to pass that test. So one of the biggest hurdles we had was how do we create a natural organic mattress and get it organic certified and not have to use one of those fire flame retarded sort of barriers. And what we came up with is using all natural wool. And so wool by itself is a natural fire suppressant. Firemen carry wool blankets in case of emergency. And so we went to India

found a factory that can process the wool and process it in a way where it comes to us, it looks like a felt sort of sheet in rolls. And so our mattresses in the inside get covered with that. And then on top of that, we use organic cotton fabric for the outer layers. And so that generally that's sort of how the whole mattress comes together. Each one of those components that we talked about, we get certified by a third party lab as being organic. So the cotton,

Ramon Vela (12:43.82)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (13:06.076)
comes from sustainable organic practices. The wool where we get that out of the Himalayas, they have a natural process where the sheep just graze on the natural surroundings with no antibiotics and no hormones and things like that. And then the same thing with the latex. Our latex, our plantations, we get certified by GOTS that they...

Ramon Vela (13:20.515)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (13:33.404)
They don't use pesticides, they don't use certain chemicals, and that the farming practices are organic as possible. That's how we get our beds completely certified. That's generally what it is. So it's a little bit harder to make our beds than your sort traditional all foam beds, but we think it's worth the effort.

Ramon Vela (13:53.646)
And, walk me through now there's been a few years ago, there was a, like a big, a real, like, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, there was a lot of mattress companies out and some really big ones and they're growing fast. And it was, you know, it feels like it felt like there was, it was everywhere. Like there was mattress companies popping up and so forth. what was, what was the vision?

Vy Nguyen (14:07.856)
Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (14:15.249)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (14:22.218)
that the original co-founder shared with you and how did you understand it and what was so compelling about their vision versus all this competition? Because there's a lot of competition out there.

Vy Nguyen (14:32.815)
Yeah, there is a lot of competition and I think, you know, taking a step back to sort of understand what happened in the industry. Mattresses were traditionally a very regional business because they're so big and bulky to ship. You know, they're just a big rectangle. And so, you know, going back 20 years and more, you basically had every major city had multiple

Ramon Vela (14:48.749)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (14:59.782)
factories making mattresses under lots of different brands because they delivered it locally to the retailer and that's sort of the way it was for a long time. And then let's say about 20 years ago, there was advent of new technology that can take the mattress and compress it and roll it. And so by taking the mattress and rolling it, you shrunk the footprint and then you could ship it FedEx or UPS. And so that dramatically changed the business to where

a regional factory could ship the whole country now. And then you layer on top of that the advent of, obviously everybody starting to buy and discover new brands online. That was sort of happening, you know, over the last 20 years also. And then you sort of also on top of that, right at that moment had Casper who raised a lot of venture capital money, a couple of hundred million dollars to bring that brand as a direct to consumer concept.

Ramon Vela (15:34.008)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (15:58.914)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (15:59.814)
to market. So they never really, they never produced anything. What they leverage on is, hey, we'll take the money, build the brand, do the marketing. And so that sort of opened the floodgates where everybody else saw like, hey, you know, we could build a brand and not have to have a factory, not to not have to produce it, find one of these factors to make it for us. And so that's, that's that moment you're talking about when you saw like, you know, hundreds of brands sort of pop up.

Ramon Vela (16:23.522)
Mm-hmm

Vy Nguyen (16:24.452)
all with sort of different concepts and sort of slightly different value offerings to the consumer. And where we saw a fit was none of those other brands were really speaking to a healthier way of making the mattress, a healthier way of living. You do spend a third of your life on the mattress. So our proposition was more on how do we make it as healthy as possible using the most natural components as possible.

Ramon Vela (16:45.336)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (16:53.362)
And I think that's where the brand has stood away from the pack. Everybody else was a very, very similar offering and just a slight variation on that, where ours was really different at the time.

Ramon Vela (17:11.212)
Yeah. And I actually didn't realize that that's what was happening with some of those, some of those big sort of like directed consumer brands. I don't know. I mean, I guess from a business perspective, that feels like that's, that would be, that's like a, an efficient or optimal model, but it doesn't feel like that's necessarily like consumer centric, you know,

Vy Nguyen (17:18.769)
Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (17:28.262)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right.

Vy Nguyen (17:34.606)
Exactly. So I think, you know, the sort of business parlance is a very capital light business. You know, you don't have to have a factory, very people light. And it sounds, I think, good on paper. But to your point, I think there's you're not building sustainable competitive advantages. You know, if you could do it, then you know what's what and you don't have to put any capital and, you know, sort of.

have the training people and the factories to produce it, the next guy could do exactly the same thing. And that's what you saw. All of sudden, one guy seemed somewhat successful. You had 200 other guys say, well, if he could do it, I could do it. And then that sort of devalued everybody in the space. were, early on, partly because sort of my background in manufacturing, but early on, I really saw that in order to...

Ramon Vela (18:09.129)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (18:15.726)
you

Ramon Vela (18:20.482)
Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (18:31.652)
stay long-term valuable in the business. You we really understood you had to vertically integrate because partly the product we came to market with, the supply chain didn't exist. You couldn't get organic wool as a fire barrier. We sort of had to figure out how to mass produce that. You couldn't get organic latex in the quantities that we needed it. So, you know, all these industries existed for other channels and other markets, but not for the betting market. And so,

Ramon Vela (18:53.367)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (19:00.482)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (19:01.308)
You know, we established very quickly that it was in our interest to build that supply chain for ourselves and lock that in. And obviously, you know, we're getting some economics by doing that, but also creating a barrier of entry that's much harder for others to emulate and do what we do. And so that's kind of how we evolve. so, you know, we make the finished product, but we also are partners in the latex factory.

We're partners in the wool factory, and we produce our own inner spring. So all of the core components that go into the mattress, we're very careful on managing that supply chain and owning that whole vertical integration.

Ramon Vela (19:44.578)
You know, and I, and I have noticed that there is more and more companies in different industries. for instance, I've noticed it a lot in food and beverage where it's more and more companies are doing the hard work upfront of actually creating their own manufacturing. because it gives those competitive advantages, like maybe in the very beginning, you know, it's definitely capital intensive. Like you have to.

Vy Nguyen (20:02.95)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (20:12.226)
You have to put money towards it. There's an investment involved, but down the road, it feels like if you can learn to make that work and be very, you know, be very sharp in terms of like the finances and everything and watching your numbers, it brings a competitive advantage that you, it's, it's hard to match. Like you control the quality, you control the innovation, you can control all sorts of different things.

Vy Nguyen (20:30.972)
Yeah.

You control the pace of innovation, you control the quality. And I think on top of that too, I think all your points are valid. I think also, think my sense of it is that consumers are wanting to interact with companies that are doing the work. They don't feel like if you're just marketing them a product and having someone else make it, they want to feel like a connection to the brand. That like this person makes the product, this person grows the cow.

Ramon Vela (20:52.525)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (21:05.158)
whatever product happens to be, because I think that there's a genuine, whether it's artistry or a genuineness in terms of what we could speak to the product, the quality of the product, the craftsmanship that goes in there. If you're speaking to the person who makes it, it's just much more authentic of a story. And I think consumers are craving that a little bit. think they got, for the last generation, we got just inundated with these big corporate

sort of brands that have no life and no soul to them. And I think the opposite pendulum is sort of coming now where consumers really are searching for something, brands with a soul and a real purpose. And I think that's kind of where we really stand out. We try to have a real purpose and a real substance to our brand.

Ramon Vela (21:36.003)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (21:44.11)
Yeah, I love that.

Ramon Vela (21:57.762)
Yeah, I love that line. So what have been some of the challenges? For instance, I'm sure there's like many, but what has been some of the challenges in bringing to market? We obviously have just recently have had two major things happen. Obviously the COVID happened and then I don't know how that affected you guys, but also of course tariffs now and then there's others. How have you made it through some of these things?

Vy Nguyen (22:21.148)
Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (22:26.608)
Yeah, I COVID was a strange period of time, obviously, for everybody. In our particular industry, mean, obviously, for a few months there, everything sort of quiet down and shut down. And then it was just the floodgates of orders. And people obviously being trapped at home started to, you know, decided to remodel their house. And I guess working from home, people started realizing.

Ramon Vela (22:47.309)
Hehehe.

Vy Nguyen (22:51.984)
Maybe they needed new furniture, new mattresses. So, you know, demand really exploded during the lockdown period. And being that we produced everything, it was a challenge for us to keep up with orders because we had to make all that stuff. you know, hiring employees to getting new facilities. think pre-COVID, we had probably about 300, a little under 300 employees, if I remember right. And then during COVID, I mean, we got up to thousand employees just trying to keep up with orders.

And was not, you know, and during that time you have a lot of orders, but it's not the most productive time either. Cause you know, you're, you're rushing orders out, you're, you're hiring people that, that aren't getting all the training or all the experience that's needed. So it wasn't the most profitable period in our, in our history, but it's certainly the demand, you know, really grew. then, and I think that for us, the real challenges in terms of a business came sort of after COVID because

Ramon Vela (23:27.288)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (23:48.528)
So much of the industry had demand pull forward. And so post COVID, the industry really saw a big drop in unit volume. And here we are, we just built new factories, two new factories, and we had additional buildings and rent, and we had all these people. And so really working hard to contain and get that cost structure back down to the normalized demand level was quite a bit of work.

Ramon Vela (23:56.428)
Hmm.

Ramon Vela (24:14.764)
Yeah, and how about tariffs? How is that affecting you guys?

Vy Nguyen (24:19.108)
Yeah, mean, Chair, look, we import a fair amount of things. Not everything we import. We obviously produce a lot of our own stuff. But yeah, we are facing tariffs. like cotton is not a plant that is grown in the US anymore, so you can't really source cotton fabric. There's really no domestic sourcing for that. Latex.

Ramon Vela (24:41.774)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (24:44.332)
rubber trees only grow in the equator region. So, you the places where we source that basically are centered around the equator because that plant needs the heat and the humidity to grow and have that sort of sap. So, yeah, we're dealing with it. I mean, it's been a big additional cost this year. We also do have a processing plant in Mexico where we do some sowing and we do

a lot of our cut and sew and so that's facing tariffs shipping from there. And I guess like every business, we're just managing through it. We've tried to hold the line on price increases where we can. A few items we've had to increase some prices to deal with and help pay for some of the tariffs. But for the most part, we've held the line. We've figured out ways to cut costs, minimize freight.

things like that to make up for the impact.

Ramon Vela (25:45.31)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the hardest thing, I think, in regards to tariffs is that you, there's so much uncertainty because you don't know if they're changing, you don't know if they're increasing, or maybe they won't be around, you know, like, you just don't know. You just have to, like you said, manage to do them and hope for the best and just be prepared, right?

Vy Nguyen (26:06.384)
Yeah, I think that's your point. You know, to your point, the biggest thing is just the uncertainty it provides. Like I think I think once we start seeing trade deals finalize and and really understanding, for the next few years, this is what the rate is going to be. Then you can run the business, you know, accordingly. Right now, there's a lot of uncertainty in it. So, you know, week by week, month by month, it does seem to change. And at least it seems to have leveled off currently. And so.

Ramon Vela (26:33.485)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (26:34.002)
We're sort of hoping those trade deals, especially between Mexico and the US, finalize soon. We do a fair bit of imports from India. for us, the big countries of importance are like India, Mexico, for us to see what those trade deals look

Ramon Vela (26:51.266)
Yeah. Interesting. I have a question related to your gratitude story. You ever think about doing business in Vietnam?

Vy Nguyen (26:59.622)
Yeah, you know, we used to import a lot of latex out of Vietnam because there is a fair bit of latex that comes out of there. But then we basically help start or help enlarge a plant in India where we invested a lot of money. And so we're partners there. And so we've shifted some business over there. But yeah, we used to do a fair bit of business in Vietnam and would love to again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ramon Vela (27:19.255)
in

I just, I kind of, well, I just kind of felt like a full circle moment. Yeah. Interesting. so what are the challenges in terms, because, you know, we, we started off the conversation talking about some of the competition and the fact that they were more of a, you know, I'm not trying to be negative towards them, but, know, they were kind of a shell of a brand, right? Like they were, they were all brand, all marketing, but none of the backend. Right. And so.

But the reality is too, is that you guys have the background, you guys have the infrastructure, you have the manufacturing, you guys, like we talked about, control the quality, you guys can control the innovation and all of that, and that's fantastic. But you still need to have a brand, right? You still need to go out there and do what they do, but with a better story. How are you guys doing that? Like, how are you getting that message out, you know, in terms of...

telling your story. mean, obviously podcast is one of them, but do you work with influencers? Do you guys do digital marketing or how are you guys getting that word out now?

Vy Nguyen (28:22.45)
Sure. Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (28:29.17)
Yeah, we, you know, we have an in-house marketing team that really works at all those angles. I think, you know, in today's environment to be competitive and to get your message out, you have to be on all the different platforms. So we certainly, you know, deal with influencers. deal with affiliate sites. We deal with obviously Google and Metta and, you know, the podcasts. We do run a lot of broadcasts, which a lot of brands in our space don't do broadcasts.

I think more importantly though for us has been the storytelling of the brand, the uniqueness and what it really brings has been what really resonates with the consumer. mean, that's what we've seen. I think all brands sort of play in the same sandbox of where you advertise it and where you reach customers. It's more about, you know, whose message is resonating more. And I think that's what we work really hard at. know, we work really hard at being a very transparent brand.

about how we do things, where we source things, what we stand for, our commitment to sustainability. We have a commitment to being radically transparent in our practices. So we're happy to tell people the places we source a lot of our components and raw materials from, because we don't think there's anything to hide there. And so yeah, think those are the things. It's about having...

the real substance behind the brand and getting that message out. And we feel good that consumers really understand everything that we do behind the scenes in terms of fortifying everything that goes into the product and what it all means. And then that message will resonate with a fair amount of consumers.

Ramon Vela (30:15.502)
In terms of distribution, you mentioned earlier that at one time mattress companies were mostly, what's the word you use? Regional. Yeah. So it feels like probably one of those things that changed with all those competitors that were around at that time is more of a wider reach now required from brands.

Vy Nguyen (30:27.644)
Regional.

Vy Nguyen (30:41.51)
Yeah. Sure.

Ramon Vela (30:45.272)
Do you guys provide that wider reach now? you be, can we go online and buy things? Marketplaces, Amazon, Walmart, or any of those kinds of places?

Vy Nguyen (30:48.784)
Yeah. For sure.

Vy Nguyen (30:56.146)
Yeah, no, mean, look, we predominantly do business on our website, which is the majority of what we're doing. Currently, we also have 14 retail outlets we call experience centers across the country. Those do great. Those really highlight the brand and the essence of the brand. We really set out to create an environment that was, I think, uniquely different than what other mattress experiences were.

Ramon Vela (31:23.384)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (31:23.398)
where you walked into a retail store and there's like 50 mattresses and different brands. And it was very difficult to choose. We created a very sort of soothing environment, lots of plants and green and not overcrowded with too many choices. Our stores may have 10 or 12 mattresses to try. We give you the space, the privacy to sort of lay on them, try them. There's really no hard sales pitch.

We really want people to experience the brand and we set out to do that building our experience centers. And we, you know, it's been a great journey doing those and I think we'll continue to build more over the next coming years. You know, we'd like to get to about a hundred retail locations across the country. Like I said, we're at 14 now, so we've got some ways to go. The other path we have is we, about two years ago, started selling wholesale, so selling to our retail partners.

Ramon Vela (32:06.35)
Hmm.

Vy Nguyen (32:18.414)
And currently we are up to about 500, locations across the country with key furniture and mattress dealers.

Ramon Vela (32:28.334)
That's interesting. And no marketplaces yet?

Vy Nguyen (32:34.997)
Not anything major. We've tested a few smaller items. We did some stuff on Amazon and some other things. We've found it challenging, let's put it that way. I think, like an Amazon marketplace, the smaller items seem to work okay, but the bigger ticket items, there's just a lot more to the sales process, the returns process, understanding. Our mattresses are, because...

of quality components we put in there, they're north of $1,500. So it's not the typical price point I think that makes sense in some of those marketplaces.

Ramon Vela (33:06.146)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (33:10.636)
Yeah, no, I get it. in terms of the wholesale process, what partners, is there anyone that you could, any big names that you want to mention?

Vy Nguyen (33:19.858)
Sure, mean we up in the northeast we have Raymore Flanagan's out here in Southern California, sit and sleep. We have Mancini's up in the Bay Area, City Furniture out in Florida, Jordan's. Now you're going to get me in trouble for the ones that I forgot to say there. But you could go to our website and go to the dealer locator and

Ramon Vela (33:37.614)
No, no, worry about it. I'm sure there's a of partners out there, so no, I don't want to...

Vy Nguyen (33:46.938)
and put in your zip code and we'll show you the nearest dealer to you.

Ramon Vela (33:50.22)
Yeah, no worries. So in terms of distribution, pretty much anywhere you go in the country, whether it's online or at one of your outlets or one of your wholesalers, it's within reach. And those stores, those outlets that you talked about, it kind of feels like the way you're describing it is almost like, in a sense, sort of like a...

And this may not one of these examples, it may not be the best nowadays, but it's like an Apple store, like a, or like a Tesla store, right? Like, know Tesla's kind of getting beaten up, beaten up a little bit, but, but I mean, their stores were pretty cool. Like they only had like, you know, one model there. You take a look and, know, I mean, it was very pleasant and very, non-sales like nothing like a regular, car dealership. Right. And, and I noticed that.

Vy Nguyen (34:21.906)
Yeah.

I love it.

Vy Nguyen (34:30.534)
Yeah, yeah.

Vy Nguyen (34:43.527)
Right.

Ramon Vela (34:45.294)
mattress stores could also be a little bit like car dealership in a way. And I think what you guys have done is created like a very, like you said, calming environment where people can kind of just choose and really instead of being sold to the, you know, the, uh, the hard sell really being told a story like that. Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (35:03.44)
The story about the brand, I mean, that's what we set out to do. You walk into the store, it's about feeling the brand. And then, you know, we allow you to sort of make your decision at that point. We feel strongly that if you get to know the brand, you'll love the brand. And if it's not right for you, it's okay too. But, you know, we feel strongly about what the brand stands for. And so we think our job is to get that message out to consumers about the brand, what the brand stands for, and then the rest will speak for itself.

Ramon Vela (35:23.043)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (35:32.332)
Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. Now, let's talk a little bit about the product. I want to make sure that people know more about what we've been talking about. What would you say, like high level wise, because I'd love for you to kind of describe a little bit of the design and the manufacturing process a little bit for people, kind of like what we talking about earlier before we started the interview. And then

But let's start off with the benefits. Obviously people want organic because it's sustainable and all of that. But are there any benefits to this beyond just the sustainability?

Vy Nguyen (36:13.874)
Yeah, I mean, certainly, you know, benefits to the planet, but I think real measurable benefits to consumers are the fact that, you know, like I said, our fire barrier isn't chemically treated. It's an all natural fire barrier. The fact that we use wool and cotton as sort of the top layers of our mattress, that naturally creates a cooling process because they're all natural fibers. They don't get hot.

And so I know a lot of people, you know, they worry about the fact that they sleep warm and that that bothers them. A lot of it and then so a lot of it is just the materials that are being used in the bed. And what we the components we use are very breathable because they come from nature. You know, they've evolved a way that that that makes sense, you know, from the sheep hair, the way we process the wool so that we give it room and air to breathe.

Ramon Vela (36:45.806)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (36:56.366)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (37:06.832)
the way we process our latex to give it, we ventilate it, we punch little holes in it so that when it's in the mattress, there's a lot of airflow. And so the real benefits of the fact that you're not worrying about off-gassing, the fact that you're sleeping on a naturally flame-retardant product, so there's no chemical treatment on it, and the fact that you are buying a product that is

produced by natural components and will naturally decompose in the right time so that it's not leaving behind this nasty footprint when you're done using the...

Ramon Vela (37:46.156)
Yeah. Well, I mean, like I said, I think a lot of people, especially nowadays, sustainability, you know, used to be, used to be sort of like this added thing that you would do, you know, if you really like, if you were mission driven and so forth. Now it feels like it's a lot of, it's just table stakes. Like you have, like most companies really have to do it, but I don't think people really

Vy Nguyen (38:09.329)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (38:13.614)
are doing it necessarily, like they use a lot of buzzwords. Yeah, I agree with you.

Vy Nguyen (38:16.85)
I think there's a lot of greenwashing as I guess, there's a lot of greenwashing and I think that's where we try to be transparent. We belong to 1 % for the planet. So that means for our green mattress line, 1 % of the revenue goes to supporting foundations and charities that support causes for the planet. And we're one of their Pinnacle Award winners, which is sort of one of their top tier contributors. We have a lot of different...

association that we belong to it. And these are all third party verified stuff, whether it's carbon neutral, know, made safe. We want to be put through the most difficult sort of testing environment there is out there. And so we do get a lot of third party certifications. And I think that's a big part of validation of what we do as a brand so that it's not, you know, we're not just telling you this. We want to back it up with real data and real testing.

Ramon Vela (39:02.574)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (39:16.162)
Yeah, and so I'm on the website. You can go to avocadogreenmatress.com. So three words basically, avocadogreenmatress.com is the website. And I'm on there now and I'm looking at some of the certifications you have. You've got your Certified B Corp, which we haven't mentioned, which I think is actually really, really important. I'll talk about it in a second.

Best for the world, 2020, 2022, 1 % for the planet, like you mentioned, also the climate label certifier, those are just some of the certifications you guys have. And the B Corp, for those who are listening, who haven't heard me talk about B Corps, or don't know what B Corps are, they're a big deal. Most brands...

Vy Nguyen (40:05.008)
Yeah, not easy to get either.

Ramon Vela (40:06.902)
Yeah, that's what I'm going to say is that they're very difficult to get. They take a long time. I've had people on the show who complain about how long it takes, but you know, the reality is that kind of makes it very, you know, that difficulty also makes it, also I feel like it's a screening, know, like only companies who really mean it really, really, you know, complete the certification process. And for those who don't know what that is, it's basically, it's a certification that is up above and beyond what

Vy Nguyen (40:25.35)
Do it.

Ramon Vela (40:36.396)
most companies are required to do. So this is not regulated. This is not something that companies have to do. It's just that companies who care about the environment, care about sustainability, care about their employees, care about the communities and the world around them, they take the certification and they basically make a commitment. The commitment to, again, their community, their environment, their employees, their suppliers, and to the consumers so that they know that they're above board.

that they're transparent, that they're doing things correctly, that they're treating people correctly. So this is actually an additional cause. So if you're consumer and you're listening to this and you're thinking, wanna do business with a company who really cares, this is one of those first steps. You look for companies who are B Corp. So if you wanna add anything.

Vy Nguyen (41:23.698)
Yeah. And B Corp, every two years, does a very intensive audit. To your point, they want to validate that what you say you're going to do, you actually did. And B Corp is really about verifying that companies are living up to their pledge of supporting all constituents, the customer, the employee, the planet, all the initiatives that we put forward, those commitments we make that we're honoring them.

And they come in every two years and they'll spend a few months auditing everything. And they'll give us a score. think this last year we scored 113 points or something like that. And so, yeah, it's time consuming. We have a small team that just manages all of our certifications. And obviously every two years when the B Corp audit comes, it's a big undertaking. And the first time we got it, we had to get outside consultants too, just to...

Ramon Vela (42:11.96)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (42:17.124)
understand the process, you know, because there's a lot. I mean, it's not just you say things, you really have to, you know, you have to put together employee manual and put down the commitments you're going to do and then follow through on those things. There's a lot of practices that you have to, that they outline that you need to do. And so it is really above board. And I do think you're right. mean, if consumers are looking for companies that they feel are responsible in every way,

Ramon Vela (42:35.448)
Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (42:46.219)
B-Corp is a good certification to look at.

Ramon Vela (42:49.39)
Yeah, I, I a hundred percent agree. And one of the other things that I noticed here that I think you mentioned a little bit about, um, in your description of, of, uh, the benefits and the, and the things that the benefits of the mattresses is testing for toxins. Now, I know you kind of mentioned, you mentioned it, but there's a lot of people I think who are still sort of learning about all of this, but petrochemicals and things like that. The, you know, this is essentially for those out there, this is

like oil, They're derivatives of oil, like what we see in the black oil that we see in Barrow and things like that. Companies make products based on these chemicals. you see petrochemicals, they're based on this, on oil, and they do their thing and they create different things based off it. And there's so many things around our households that are made with petrochemicals.

Vy Nguyen (43:26.66)
Yeah, we did.

Ramon Vela (43:44.674)
But many people don't want these things in their bodies. They don't want to be on their products. They don't want to be, you know, they don't want to lay on them for eight hours a day, you know, eight hours a day. and so it's really important that, you know, you have to be very careful and work with companies who are transparent. That's how you're like, Hey, we're, we're avoiding these types of chemicals. And I, I just saw you hear that you guys are tested for toxins. You're you doing a, How do you pronounce it? OE? Okay. Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (44:12.326)
Thank you.

Ramon Vela (44:14.254)
where every thread, every button, every fiber, every coil has been tested for harmful levels of toxic substances, which I think are important. mean, a lot of people, like you said earlier, they spend a lot of time on their mattresses and to be having all these chemicals around you, I don't know. I just don't think that's very safe.

Vy Nguyen (44:27.92)
Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (44:34.159)
Yeah, then we do a off-gassing test also under Made Safe where they put the product in a chamber basically for like a week or a month depending on the type of product and they measure how much off-gassing comes from that product. I think people are starting to realize that think the components and the raw inputs of what makes a product, just because it's been created into a finished product doesn't really mean they're

everything stops there. There's continually things are breaking down over lifetime of a product and what is being released as that product breaks down. I think people are becoming a lot more aware of that. And certainly, some things release a lot more toxins, a lot more off gassing, a lot more things in the air that you may be breathing in. And I think, know, like...

Part of what we want to do is figure out how to create the safest product. And so we do search for these third party certifications to verify that. we don't want, it's not just people taking our word. I think we want to feel good that we are doing it. And if there's a better way doing it, we want to figure it out and learn and be the first to implement it also.

Ramon Vela (45:38.081)
Mm-hmm.

Ramon Vela (45:49.624)
Yeah. Well, I have two more questions for you because I want to be respectful of your time and we're coming up to the hour. So by now, I think people have a good understanding of who you are and the brand and what you guys are about. If someone really loves what they're hearing and wants to maybe try one of these, where do you suggest they start on their journey with your brand? Is there a particular product?

Vy Nguyen (46:17.874)
I mean, great places. go to the website, read about it. We have a whole sustainability page that if that's what intrigues them about all our sustainability practices. But if they want to try the product, I I certainly would recommend going to our dealer locator page and they could put in their zip code, find the nearest location that has it. They could certainly, and if there's not anything close to them, they could certainly buy it on our website. We have a very friendly return policy.

You could basically keep it up to a year on the mattresses and return them. And so, you we feel pretty confident in our products. We feel like, you know, people try it, they'll love it. And so, yeah, the more, the merrier.

Ramon Vela (46:58.122)
Is there any particular product that you would recommend? there any bestseller?

Vy Nguyen (47:01.842)
You know, yeah, we try to do sure. Our product line on the mattress side sort of breaks into three different categories. We have our green product line, which is sort of, think, the value oriented price point. then those there's three options there between sort of medium firm plush and then and then super plush. So really just depending on like if you're a side sleeper or if you like it a lot plusher or you like a firmer bed, you know, you could choose your three options there. And then we move up into our luxury line.

which is a little bit more elevated product. It's got a lot more exotic fibers and different components we use in there. We have alpaca fibers in there. We have some silk and mohair fibers, which really create a different feel and a different loft and sort of a different cloud kind of feeling that people love. And then that product line, we had the sort of medium firm plush and super plush that...

people can sort of choose what fits best for them. And then recently we just rolled out our newest line, which hasn't hit the stores yet, but our sort of super luxury line. It's just hitting stores now. It's definitely tailored towards the Uber luxury market, I say. It's in the sort of $10,000 $20,000 price category, but it's...

Ramon Vela (48:22.99)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (48:27.694)
It's made with lot of layers of different coil systems. It's a pretty heavy bed. It's built to last a whole lifetime. There's a lot that goes into it, more than I have time to explain all that. But those will be hitting the stores over the next six months, so feel free to try those out.

Ramon Vela (48:45.92)
Well, and you guys have a lot of stuff that we weren't probably not able to talk about too much, but like you mentioned, the avocado green mattress, you got the echo organic mattress, like you mentioned the luxury organic mattress, the grand Lux. Yeah. Yeah. The grand Lux and you even have a vegan mattress with no wool. So that's pretty interesting. Then of course you have echo, you have kid, kids mattresses, you've got crib mattresses, mattress toppers, bases.

Vy Nguyen (48:57.904)
And the grand lux is on you.

Vy Nguyen (49:04.902)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (49:15.374)
You've got dorm room bundles if you're sending someone to college, which you know, I sent my get my son to college Earlier, so I wish I would have known that Pillows pillows protectors bedding bed and furniture like we mentioned bedding kids bath and body So you've got other products there as well and you've got a sale button there for I'm assuming like bestsellers and things like that So yeah, and then there's a video too that I didn't get a chance to listen to but it looks fascinating

Vy Nguyen (49:37.084)
Yeah.

Ramon Vela (49:43.488)
about your story, so that's kind of cool. There's a lot of stuff here for everybody, and then of course there's a find a store button, which we've talked about and mentioned before, where you can find a dealer, where you can buy it, and I would highly recommend people go take a look at that and see that. My last question for you, and thanks for telling us all about the product, it looks fascinating, and I don't know if this is your store, it looks like it's in New York or someplace, it's on a corner, you have it on your website.

Vy Nguyen (50:10.448)
Yeah, yeah, that's our store. That's our Fifth Avenue store in New York.

Ramon Vela (50:14.706)
that's beautiful. I guess I just have a question. You guys are so fascinating in terms of your mission and your focus on sustainability and such. If there's someone else listening out there from who's an entrepreneur or wanting to be an entrepreneur, and they are committed also to sustainability, maybe not in your industry or whatnot, is there any words of wisdom that you would share with?

with someone out there who's looking to be an entrepreneur in the sustainability area.

Vy Nguyen (50:48.246)
yeah, I I think, I think if people were out there wanting to, you know, launch a product, I think it's about authenticity. So I think however you approach it, having an authentic message and staying true to that is what resonates with consumers now. I think consumers have gone, you know, way too smart to fall for sort of gimmicky, marketing sort of slogans, which, you know, I think, I think that

that generation has come and go where, you you only got your news or your information from a couple of channels. I think there's just so much out there now. And so you have to be authentic because the real message will come out. And I think that's the biggest key. And I think that's what anybody new starting out there really needs to focus on. And having a true authentic message, you know, it'll take time, but that's what's going to resonate. That's what's going to stick in people's mind. And so I think that's...

Ramon Vela (51:44.174)
Mm-hmm.

Vy Nguyen (51:46.054)
something to focus on.

Ramon Vela (51:47.726)
And on a business operations standpoint, would you recommend people doing their own manufacturing if they can from the beginning?

Vy Nguyen (51:54.13)
I think it goes to different industries. I think for us, it made sense in our industry. I don't know if every industry makes that sense. I I think if you're doing something in the consumer food category, I think that's pretty difficult to have a factory and have it FDA certified and all that. So I know a lot of consumer packaged goods don't originally start that way. Yeah, I think it goes industry by industry. I think it's more about thinking about, you

What are you trying to build and how do you build that moat? First you got to build a castle, then you got to build the moat around it. And those things take one brick at a time. But while you're building the castle, you should be thinking about what's going to be my moat? And if your moat's manufacturing because you need vertical integration, is it because you want to drive the cost down? Is it because you have a unique patent or some unique technology? I think all those things need to go hand in hand.

Ramon Vela (52:53.71)
Yeah, I love that. I love how you described it. I hear a lot of, when I see it in LinkedIn, there's always people talking about building, you know, having a moat. The focus is always on the moat. What you just said right now, I thought was kind of funny. It's kind of cool in that sense that you've got to build a castle first before you move. Yeah, I love that. All right, man. This has been fantastic. Any last words you want to leave with the audience?

Vy Nguyen (53:10.042)
Right, right, you gotta move with no castle. You got nothing to defend.

Vy Nguyen (53:22.462)
I'm just happy to be here, happy to get our message out and really, if anybody wants to hear more about the avocado journey and story, feel free to reach out and try to visit us in one of our places where our products are being showcased.

Ramon Vela (53:40.118)
Yeah, well, this is great, man. Thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it. I love your story. I love the authenticity, you know, and just a quick word on authenticity. I kind of feel like there's so much AI stuff on the marketing world right now that I think people are looking more for authenticity. want real people. This is why I focus like in the very beginning, I want people to know there's real people behind these brands.

that care. so, so I think it's going to be more and more of a thing where people are going to look for authenticity and they're not going to be fooled necessarily with with, you the just the empty shell of a brand that just markets to them. So I appreciate what you're doing. And I really feel like you guys meet my tagline, which is products we're buying, brands we're supporting. So thank you for that. And thank you for sharing and being on the show.

Vy Nguyen (54:34.802)
It's been fun.

Ramon Vela (54:36.366)
Everyone out there, we have just had V Nguyen, is co-CEO of Avocado Mattress, which you can find at AvocadoGreenMattress.com. Again, that's AvocadoGreenMattress.com. I'm going to have that link as well as a social media link. Actually, I just clicked on their Instagram a second ago. 154,000 followers. That's pretty good. That's a pretty good community. Yeah.

Vy Nguyen (55:00.818)
Make sure you add yourself, we'll get one more.

Ramon Vela (55:05.318)
I did. And so everyone out there, go take a look at the website. I think you guys will be really pleasantly surprised. They're very transparent and they have all sorts of certifications. And if you're really, really into making sure that the products around you, especially your bed in which you're going to be laying on eight hours plus whatever a day, you really need to have something that's safe, but also good for you and good for the environment. So go check it out. I always tell people,

you know, be safe, be healthy. This is actually one way of kind of being healthy as well as sustainable. So go check it out. And thank you again, for sharing, you know, more of your story. Beyond that, everyone, by the way, I'll just mention, you can find us on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere you listen to podcasts. And we'll make sure we have those links on our podcast description. But beyond that, everyone, one last thing. We've all been going through a lot of stuff, the pandemic, the tariffs,

you know, wars, geopolitical wars, you know, all sorts of stuff. You know, it's kind of crazy right now, crazy time. Let's just do ourselves a favor and remember that everyone is going through something and let's just remember to be kinder. That's all it is. Just be a little kinder to each other. And I know we can make this human experience a better one. Beyond that, everyone, thank you from the bottom of my heart for listening to another episode of the story of a brand.